RugbyRebels

I feel like the second one was the worst offender of the whole lot. Like Rian Johnson was actively mocking anyone for ever enjoying Star Wars at all, and making the third absolutely impossible plot-wise. Truly hated it. God knows why I watched the third at all but that was obviously shite too.

I didn’t even care about them when they were announced but thought the first was a surprising amount of fun. Derivative sure, but the whole concept of Star Wars is fucking stupid in the first place.

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:58 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:07 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:07 am

That is the most apposite description of that film I've come across.

Puja

Yep, and the second and third films may well have been generated in a similar way.

I actually have a bit of time for the second one. At least it *tried* to do something interesting, divorcing the mythos from "this one special family does everything" and playing with the idea that roguish insubordination might actually be the wrong thing to do, even if you are a designated hero.

The third one was created by a drunk AI with the input of just "Specifically fuck The Last Jedi, retcon everything, and make something with the same energy as a 12 year old's fanfiction."

Puja

They're both a little more original than The Force Awakens but do use a lot of plot elements from the previous films, especially The Last Jedi (rebels being pursued by the Empire/First Order, hero is trained by old Jedi master living in isolation, snow planet (or is it salt? Anyway it looks similar). Both have incredibly stupid events although I think TLJs slow-motion chase across the galaxy is possibly the most stupid thing. But, the rebels being whittled down to a handful is still a better plot than the return of the Emperor (you're right about the fan fiction) who just happens to have a fleet of star destroyers, but whoops, none of them are quite ready for action yet. The who thing with Luke refusing to help is bad though - it's out of character, and simply boring to watch. All three films suffer from the fact that completely unbelievable things must have happened between ep6 and ep7 to get us to this point.

Having said all this, it's not like they're the only bad Star Wars films. The Return of the Jedi is almost as bad as the Disney trilogy, itself being a terrible reworking of most of the elements in ep4.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:18 am

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:58 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:07 pm
Yep, and the second and third films may well have been generated in a similar way.

I actually have a bit of time for the second one. At least it *tried* to do something interesting, divorcing the mythos from "this one special family does everything" and playing with the idea that roguish insubordination might actually be the wrong thing to do, even if you are a designated hero.

The third one was created by a drunk AI with the input of just "Specifically fuck The Last Jedi, retcon everything, and make something with the same energy as a 12 year old's fanfiction."

Puja

completely unbelievable things must have happened

...what, in a science fiction film. Never.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 11:09 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:18 am

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:58 pm

I actually have a bit of time for the second one. At least it *tried* to do something interesting, divorcing the mythos from "this one special family does everything" and playing with the idea that roguish insubordination might actually be the wrong thing to do, even if you are a designated hero.

The third one was created by a drunk AI with the input of just "Specifically fuck The Last Jedi, retcon everything, and make something with the same energy as a 12 year old's fanfiction."

Puja

completely unbelievable things must have happened

...what, in a science fiction film. Never.

Not just a science fiction film, a Star Wars film, so a high level of unbelievability is already priced in. It's that unbelievable.

I watched ‘Split’ and ‘Glass’. God knows why, beyond enjoying ‘Unbreakable’ as a kid and thinking they might be of a similar level.

They should really be called ‘Unbearable’ and ‘Unwatchable’.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 10:48 am I watched ‘Split’ and ‘Glass’. God knows why, beyond enjoying ‘Unbreakable’ as a kid and thinking they might be of a similar level.

They should really be called ‘Unbearable’ and ‘Unwatchable’.

Thanks for taking a bullet for us, I had considered watching those for the similar reason

Salem's Lot (2024). I can't resist this stuff after being traumatised by the original. In fact after watching it I had to rewatch the two previous versions (not on the same day). This is how it goes:

Salem's Lot (1979).
The original and best. Yes, it's a 70s TV miniseries, and that does drag it down for the modern viewer, mostly in the soundtrack. But my God, Texas Chainsaw Massacre director Tobe Hooper created some scares. There's a relentless seriousness to it and and the way the tension builds up over the second half to the climax is fantastic. Full of classic horror moments (no less than 3 floating vampire boy moments, the rocking chair moment, the inside of the Marsden House, confronting Straker etc). Also, the plot fixes the rather meandering last act of the (otherwise excellent) book and generally tightens things up nicely. And James Mason is great. A classic.

Salem's Lot (2004)
This version follows the book most closely, although not slavishly. It feels much, much more modern, mainly the lack of HD indicates its age (and Rob Lowe, obviously). It's a good effort . . . except that it's not scary. Which is a bit of a problem. Basically, the vampires just aren't frightening. Rutger Hauer does his thing but, just no chills, I'm afraid. I enjoyed it, but it barely rates as horror, despite the great cast (Donald Sutherland too).

Salem's Lot (2024)
This is more of a remake of the 1979 version than an adaptation of the book. I can see why they wanted to do this, to fix the aspects of the David Soul version that haven't aged well. And they do that. There are scary moments and the vampires do look pretty good, floating around, being repelled by glowing crosses, 2020s style (albeit not quite up to the 1979 version). But the show leans into comedy a little and really loses its way after a strong middle section. The climax is very poor. And the runtime, although nearly 2 hours, is simply too short (an hour shorter than the other versions) to cover the plot without drastic cuts and a generally rushed feeling. Ultimately, another remake that fails to justify its existence.

Saw 'A different man' yesterday. Really properly good.

A real crazy mix of styles and influences in there (on top of what I worried may be a fairly one-dimensional gimmick), but somehow feels totally cohesive and sort of timeless. Works on so many levels and I'm really intrigued how many people, disabled/disfigured or otherwise, are able to relate to elements of it.

Don't bother watching a trailer. If you like any of Charlie Kauffman, David Cronenburg, Woody Allen, Pedro Almadovar, somehow this hits all of those notes.

V/H/S Beyond, the latest in the V/H/S franchise that started in 2012. For those not in the know, V/H/S is a series of found-footage anthology films, made by a collective of young, up-and-coming horror directors. The big draw for the series is the diversity in the style and content, which ranges from supernatural shenanigans to run-of-the-mill slasher stuff. In the case of Beyond, though, there's a focus on sci-fi horror. The framework is a documentary about a young man who goes missing after inheriting a house in Toronto. The first segment, Stork, follows a group of police officers heading into a house, ostensibly to rescue abducted children, and complications - which the officers take in stride - arise.

Segment two, Dream Girl, is about a pair of Bollywood paparazzo who are trying to get candid footage of the latest Bollywood "it" girl, Tara, and, to their horror, discover things are not quite as it seems.

Segment three, Live and Let Dive, has a harrowing first half, in which a plane full of skydivers gets caught in the crossfire between a UFO and fighter jets, forcing the divers to have to do a completely uncontrolled leap, as they get picked off one-by-one mid-air by an alien.

Segment four, Fur Babies, feels a bit like a dog-themed version of Tusk - appropriately enough, it is directed by the star of that film.

Segment five, Stowaway, is about a young woman who is making a documentary about extra-terrestrial encounters, who discovers an alien spaceship and stows away on board.

The first V/H/S is still the high-watermark for the series, but this is honestly, probably the best entry since. Most of the segments are pretty solid, and there are no out-and-out duds like you'd find in the rest of the series (something, which even the first V/H/S was not immune to).



Also, got round to seeing The First Slam Dunk. Written and directed by Takehiko Inoue, who wrote the original comics, which ran in a weekly serial format from 1990 to 1996, the film focuses on the final game that happened in the series - between the underdogs Shohoku and perpetual champions Sannoh High in the second round of the Summer High School Basketball Tournament. It's wonderful.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:18 am

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:58 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:07 pm
Yep, and the second and third films may well have been generated in a similar way.

I actually have a bit of time for the second one. At least it *tried* to do something interesting, divorcing the mythos from "this one special family does everything" and playing with the idea that roguish insubordination might actually be the wrong thing to do, even if you are a designated hero.

The third one was created by a drunk AI with the input of just "Specifically fuck The Last Jedi, retcon everything, and make something with the same energy as a 12 year old's fanfiction."

Puja

They're both a little more original than The Force Awakens but do use a lot of plot elements from the previous films, especially The Last Jedi (rebels being pursued by the Empire/First Order, hero is trained by old Jedi master living in isolation, snow planet (or is it salt? Anyway it looks similar). Both have incredibly stupid events although I think TLJs slow-motion chase across the galaxy is possibly the most stupid thing. But, the rebels being whittled down to a handful is still a better plot than the return of the Emperor (you're right about the fan fiction) who just happens to have a fleet of star destroyers, but whoops, none of them are quite ready for action yet. The who thing with Luke refusing to help is bad though - it's out of character, and simply boring to watch. All three films suffer from the fact that completely unbelievable things must have happened between ep6 and ep7 to get us to this point.

Having said all this, it's not like they're the only bad Star Wars films. The Return of the Jedi is almost as bad as the Disney trilogy, itself being a terrible reworking of most of the elements in ep4.

As a kid I enjoyed the original trilogy. As an adult I hated the first prequel and managed to sit through the other two. I was nervous at the sequels and was right to be so. Very disappointed on the whole. At least you could see the wider story arc from the prequels to the original trilogy, even if occasionally tortuous. But the gap between 6 and 7 is crazy and not even the mandalorian series have really explained what happened for the causal viewer.

The best film outside of the initial trilogy, probably even including those films, is Rogue One (and the related Andor series is also very good). It feels like the franchise should look at spin off movies like that rather than rehash the original trilogy.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:39 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:18 am

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 10:58 pm

I actually have a bit of time for the second one. At least it *tried* to do something interesting, divorcing the mythos from "this one special family does everything" and playing with the idea that roguish insubordination might actually be the wrong thing to do, even if you are a designated hero.

The third one was created by a drunk AI with the input of just "Specifically fuck The Last Jedi, retcon everything, and make something with the same energy as a 12 year old's fanfiction."

Puja

They're both a little more original than The Force Awakens but do use a lot of plot elements from the previous films, especially The Last Jedi (rebels being pursued by the Empire/First Order, hero is trained by old Jedi master living in isolation, snow planet (or is it salt? Anyway it looks similar). Both have incredibly stupid events although I think TLJs slow-motion chase across the galaxy is possibly the most stupid thing. But, the rebels being whittled down to a handful is still a better plot than the return of the Emperor (you're right about the fan fiction) who just happens to have a fleet of star destroyers, but whoops, none of them are quite ready for action yet. The who thing with Luke refusing to help is bad though - it's out of character, and simply boring to watch. All three films suffer from the fact that completely unbelievable things must have happened between ep6 and ep7 to get us to this point.

Having said all this, it's not like they're the only bad Star Wars films. The Return of the Jedi is almost as bad as the Disney trilogy, itself being a terrible reworking of most of the elements in ep4.

As a kid I enjoyed the original trilogy. As an adult I hated the first prequel and managed to sit through the other two. I was nervous at the sequels and was right to be so. Very disappointed on the whole. At least you could see the wider story arc from the prequels to the original trilogy, even if occasionally tortuous. But the gap between 6 and 7 is crazy and not even the mandalorian series have really explained what happened for the causal viewer.

The best film outside of the initial trilogy, probably even including those films, is Rogue One (and the related Andor series is also very good). It feels like the franchise should look at spin off movies like that rather than rehash the original trilogy.

(I appreciate that no one has asked for this but anyway) here's my list of Star Wars films in descending order of quality:

The good films: The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, Attack of the Clones
Both good and bad: The Phantom Menace
Bad: Return of the Jedi, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker = The Force Awakens (the last two tie for worst of all).

(Haven't seen Solo, no plans to do so)

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 8:33 am

cashead wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2024 2:56 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:51 pm
I haven't seen Alien Romulus yet but I have to say, whoa there son, The Force Awakens is anything but fine (IMHO).

How does Romulus compare with Prometheus and Covenant? (Which for me are a beautiful turd and fine, respectively).

I’d compare it to TFA because of all the callbacks, and endless referencing to the other films.

I’d put it above Prometheus and Covenant easily. Both those movies were shit.

Interesting. Yeah, I see Prometheus as an utterly overblown, stupid-from-beginning-to-end origin story that doesn't actually explain the origin. Covenant was more coherent and did show the origin, albeit in a way that destroyed the continuity with the AvP films (which is fairly unforgivable, I have to admit). Maybe I'm just being more lenient towards Covenant because my expectations were soooo low after Prometheus, whereas I did actually have some hopes for Prometheus.

For me TFA was a dumb, totally soulless remake of A New Hope masquerading as a sequel, essentially the script chatGPT would give you if you asked for every single element of Star Wars ep4 to be put into a plot set 30 years later.

Perhaps the lesson is, don't get your hopes up.

I saw Alien: Romulus.

I enjoyed it but my god it is indeed the Force Awakens of the Alien series in that it's a collection of elements from previous films, mostly the original, shaken about and stuck into a plot involving YA characters.

I have to justify why I enjoyed it when I think TFA is a crime against cinema. Some of this is because horror films tend to be more formulaic - an Alien film always contains a number of those elements, so it was not so much of a shocker as TFA. But , crucially, it's well constructed. The plot is actually pretty good. The characters generally make sensible decisions given the circumstances. Other than the fact that no one seems to have noticed the drifting space station except our heroes, it makes reasonable sense and the few original-ish ideas are good ()

The really overt fan service references to previous films are a huge shame. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to do things like that but it makes the film so much more childish than it could have been. So, yeah, I did enjoy it but it will remain a guilty pleasure rather than a decent addition to the series. On balance, I think the flawed Covenant is a better film - the plot is okay and it has real ambition.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:10 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:39 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2024 9:18 am
They're both a little more original than The Force Awakens but do use a lot of plot elements from the previous films, especially The Last Jedi (rebels being pursued by the Empire/First Order, hero is trained by old Jedi master living in isolation, snow planet (or is it salt? Anyway it looks similar). Both have incredibly stupid events although I think TLJs slow-motion chase across the galaxy is possibly the most stupid thing. But, the rebels being whittled down to a handful is still a better plot than the return of the Emperor (you're right about the fan fiction) who just happens to have a fleet of star destroyers, but whoops, none of them are quite ready for action yet. The who thing with Luke refusing to help is bad though - it's out of character, and simply boring to watch. All three films suffer from the fact that completely unbelievable things must have happened between ep6 and ep7 to get us to this point.

Having said all this, it's not like they're the only bad Star Wars films. The Return of the Jedi is almost as bad as the Disney trilogy, itself being a terrible reworking of most of the elements in ep4.

As a kid I enjoyed the original trilogy. As an adult I hated the first prequel and managed to sit through the other two. I was nervous at the sequels and was right to be so. Very disappointed on the whole. At least you could see the wider story arc from the prequels to the original trilogy, even if occasionally tortuous. But the gap between 6 and 7 is crazy and not even the mandalorian series have really explained what happened for the causal viewer.

The best film outside of the initial trilogy, probably even including those films, is Rogue One (and the related Andor series is also very good). It feels like the franchise should look at spin off movies like that rather than rehash the original trilogy.

(I appreciate that no one has asked for this but anyway) here's my list of Star Wars films in descending order of quality:

The good films: The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, Attack of the Clones
Both good and bad: The Phantom Menace
Bad: Return of the Jedi, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker = The Force Awakens (the last two tie for worst of all).

(Haven't seen Solo, no plans to do so)

Empire Strikes back and Rogue One are probably the strongest offerings. A New Hope has to be in the good side of the ledger just because it was so ground breaking at the time. Id agree on Revenge of the Sith.

Attack of the clones is a bit Meh for me.

Phantom Menace is firmly in the shyte category. Plus all the sequels and Solo which was again deeply underwhelming.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 3:09 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2024 9:10 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 9:39 pm

As a kid I enjoyed the original trilogy. As an adult I hated the first prequel and managed to sit through the other two. I was nervous at the sequels and was right to be so. Very disappointed on the whole. At least you could see the wider story arc from the prequels to the original trilogy, even if occasionally tortuous. But the gap between 6 and 7 is crazy and not even the mandalorian series have really explained what happened for the causal viewer.

The best film outside of the initial trilogy, probably even including those films, is Rogue One (and the related Andor series is also very good). It feels like the franchise should look at spin off movies like that rather than rehash the original trilogy.

(I appreciate that no one has asked for this but anyway) here's my list of Star Wars films in descending order of quality:

The good films: The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, Revenge of the Sith, Rogue One, Attack of the Clones
Both good and bad: The Phantom Menace
Bad: Return of the Jedi, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker = The Force Awakens (the last two tie for worst of all).

(Haven't seen Solo, no plans to do so)

Empire Strikes back and Rogue One are probably the strongest offerings. A New Hope has to be in the good side of the ledger just because it was so ground breaking at the time. Id agree on Revenge of the Sith.

Attack of the clones is a bit Meh for me.

Phantom Menace is firmly in the shyte category. Plus all the sequels and Solo which was again deeply underwhelming.

Yeah, my personal view is that The Phantom Menace has a whole lot of shyte in it (Jar Jar Binks, the Gungans, the hopeless tin soldiers, Anakin, the pod race, most of the battle at the end) but there are a few great things which just about drag it back to okay, ie Darth Maul, the best lightsabre fight in the entire series, seeing the Jedi in their prime for the first time and the appearance of Coruscant.

Attack of the Clones certainly has some meh but there's plenty I like - Yoda with a lightsabre! the surprise of the stormtroopers being on Yoda's side, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan's investigations. And did I say Yoda with a lightsabre??

Awful titles though.

Dune 2, slow to start but just kept getting better as it went on, must be a great book. Would dive into Dune 3 if it was out tomorrow