Page 29 of 43
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:18 am
by Oakboy
twitchy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:05 am
An infected cut just seems like complete negligence on the part of the medical team.
It would be interesting to know what the protocol is. For instance, does it depend on players reporting issues or is there some sort of daily inspection routine? Is massage a daily therapy? Etc.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:27 am
by Banquo
twitchy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:05 am
An infected cut just seems like complete negligence on the part of the medical team.
...or just bad luck. I'm going for the latter.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:06 am
by Mikey Brown
I’m blaming Jones/Farrell, personally.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:08 am
by p/d
Who would have thought we could be kicking off the 2024 6n with Danny La Rue and Frank Spencer as our front line 9’s
Go team England!!!
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:22 am
by Mellsblue
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:06 am
I’m blaming Jones/Farrell, personally.
Don’t you start stating the bleeding obvious too
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:31 pm
by Margin_Walker
Predicted team from the Mail
They are usually right
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:39 pm
by FKAS
Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:31 pm
Predicted team from the Mail
They are usually right
Well that's disappointing if true.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:45 pm
by Puja
Part of me is disappointed, but that's still a very handy team and a lot more exciting and fresh than anything we've done in a while. It's not my favoured lineup, but I can see definitely see its plus points.
As long as we play some actual rugby and don't just kick the leather off every bit of possession, then I'm willing to IBWT.
Puja
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:49 pm
by Mikey Brown
On the other hand it does reveal a previously unseen sense of humour to have hinted so strongly at Smith starting.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:51 pm
by p/d
No Farrell and Freeman starting.
Step forward
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:24 pm
by Mellsblue
Ahh, the good ship Borthwick: Kicky McKickface.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:09 pm
by fivepointer
Be delighted for Dingwall and Freeman but thats balanced by Daly, the half backs and Roots who I'm not convinced is up to it.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:28 pm
by Stom
Oh ffs. Why the hell is Roots there? And Daly? Honestly...crap. But his hands were tied by his squad selection...which did have some glaring holes in it.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:44 pm
by Banquo
p/d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:51 pm
No Farrell and Freeman starting.
Step forward
Poor Tommy. And he is meant to be. Or is there a comma missing?
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:45 pm
by Banquo
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:28 pm
which did have some glaring holes in it.
...such as?
Though Roots is a bit weird.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:52 pm
by 16th man
16th man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:07 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:56 pm
Sinfield implies FSmith is in the box-seat:
“[Marcus is] a big loss,” added Sinfield. “He’s an outstanding guy who I have absolutely loved working with and I have got a really good connection with. But what that does is provide opportunities for others. We have said it since I have been working with England that we are blessed with the 10s that we have got. Fin Smith’s been in camp before, his form has been outstanding for Northampton and he has trained great too. Without giving too much away, you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out where that might leave us. We have got Fin and George who has got 91 caps I think, so he has got that experience, and a young gun who has been in top, top form. We’re still in a very, very good position.”
Puja
It feels like the implication is that the bolded bits make it obvious what we'll do, but the fact that people find it hard to believe that the logical thread will be followed through should be some sort of indication of how badly selection has been bollocksed up for so long now.
If the leaked side is correct, and this was done deliberately, then its approaching performance art.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:55 pm
by Stom
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:45 pm
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:28 pm
which did have some glaring holes in it.
...such as?
Though Roots is a bit weird.
Any 6 who isn’t Roots, for one.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:31 pm
by Oakboy
If Roots is as bad as everyone is saying, presumably he'll be dumped after the Italy game. I've never been convinced about Pearson or t'other Curry. I liked the idea of C-S starting. I suspect Roots could just be the bulk to balance Earl and Underhill, neither of whom I'd pick (in the positions indicated). Roots starting (if it happens) is no more surprising than him being in the squad in the first place. It says more about the weakness of the alternatives than his strengths, I'd suggest.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:43 pm
by p/d
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:44 pm
p/d wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:51 pm
No Farrell and Freeman starting.
Step forward
Poor Tommy. And he is meant to be. Or is there a comma missing?
If I put it this way. 2 good things 1) no Farrell and 2) Freeman starting
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:49 pm
by Puja
Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:31 pm
If Roots is as bad as everyone is saying, presumably he'll be dumped after the Italy game. I've never been convinced about Pearson or t'other Curry. I liked the idea of C-S starting. I suspect Roots could just be the bulk to balance Earl and Underhill, neither of whom I'd pick (in the positions indicated). Roots starting (if it happens) is no more surprising than him being in the squad in the first place. It says more about the weakness of the alternatives than his strengths, I'd suggest.
I've not focussed enough on Roots to have a very comprehensive opinion of him, but he's always looked pretty solid in an Exeter side that he's been a massive part of rejuvenating (let's not forget the majority of prediction posts this year had them 9th), so I'm not sure I understand the hatred. He wouldn't've been the pick I'd've made, but I'm not appalled by it and the reputed comments of Richard Hill make me more inclined to think that there's something I've missed about him, rather than it being an egregious selection error.
Puja
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:12 pm
by FKAS
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:49 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:31 pm
If Roots is as bad as everyone is saying, presumably he'll be dumped after the Italy game. I've never been convinced about Pearson or t'other Curry. I liked the idea of C-S starting. I suspect Roots could just be the bulk to balance Earl and Underhill, neither of whom I'd pick (in the positions indicated). Roots starting (if it happens) is no more surprising than him being in the squad in the first place. It says more about the weakness of the alternatives than his strengths, I'd suggest.
I've not focussed enough on Roots to have a very solid opinion of him, but he's always looked pretty solid in an Exeter side that he's been a massive part of rejuvenating (let's not forget the majority of prediction posts this year had them 9th), so I'm not sure I understand the hatred. He wouldn't've been the pick I'd've made, but I'm not appalled by it and the reputed comments of Richard Hill make me more inclined to think that there's something I've missed about him, rather than it being an egregious selection error.
Puja
I think Roots will be entirely solid and physical. He'll do the grunt work to hopefully free up Earls and Underhill. It's just that he's a bit one dimensional from what I've seen. There's the hope we would be looking at developing some exciting all court players and not a tough workhorse.
I've also seen Roots make a few tackles and ruck clearouts that have looked a little bit close to getting him in trouble. The lack of cards on his record suggests he's good and just staying on the right side of the line but that'll be a bigger ask at international level.
I'm hoping CCS is on the bench.
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:28 pm
by SixAndAHalf
Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:31 pm
Predicted team from the Mail
They are usually right
I think that is about our best side with the options we have available. Glad to see Ford (acknowledging the discussion on the previous page), Freeman, Slade and Dingwall and the pack picks itself given who is available bar a few 50/50s (both props and at 6).
I'm interested to see Roots play and willing to give him a chance albeit I'll admit he wasn't really on my radar until a few weeks ago - but with no Lawes, Martin, TCurry, Willis plus Mercer / Barbeary not fitting the game plan the options are more limited.
Interestingly an "unavailable / not selected" England XV may give that one a good game:
Sinckler; Singleton/ Langdon; VRR / Rodd; Hill, Ribbans; Lawes, TCurry, Willis / Barbeary; JvP / Quirke, Smith, Arundell, Lawrence, Marchant, Coka, Watson. With a bench including Brookes, Kpoku, Simmons x 2, Mercer, Wade, Nowell plus Farrell and Manu!
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:09 am
by Danno
With a bench including Brookes, Kpoku, Simmons x 2, Mercer, Wade Nowell plus Farrell and Manu!
O.o
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:04 am
by Scrumhead
SixAndAHalf wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:28 pm
Margin_Walker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:31 pm
Predicted team from the Mail
They are usually right
I think that is about our best side with the options we have available. Glad to see Ford (acknowledging the discussion on the previous page), Freeman, Slade and Dingwall and the pack picks itself given who is available bar a few 50/50s (both props and at 6).
I'm interested to see Roots play and willing to give him a chance albeit I'll admit he wasn't really on my radar until a few weeks ago - but with no Lawes, Martin, TCurry, Willis plus Mercer / Barbeary not fitting the game plan the options are more limited.
Interestingly an "unavailable / not selected" England XV may give that one a good game:
Sinckler; Singleton/ Langdon; VRR / Rodd; Hill, Ribbans; Lawes, TCurry, Willis / Barbeary; JvP / Quirke, Smith, Arundell, Lawrence, Marchant, Coka, Watson. With a bench including Brookes, Kpoku, Simmons x 2, Mercer, Wade, Nowell plus Farrell and Manu!
I don’t think it’s fair to include players who have retired or are injured (or banned) who would otherwise have been selected. If you’re really looking at a list of players who could/possibly should have been picked it looks a bit different (on 50:50s I went with most capped like Randall over Warr for example):
1. Rapava-Ruskin*
2. Langdon
3. Sinckler
4. Ribbans
5. Kpoku**
6. Ludlam
7. Willis
8. Mercer
9. Randall
10. Farrell
11. Cokanasiga
12. Kelly
13. Marchant
14. Radwan
15. Arundell
*Injured but he has been in camp before
**Torn between him and Tuima here but on the basis of Kpoku’s greater experience let’s go with him
Re: Borthwick’s England 2.0
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:14 am
by Banquo
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:55 pm
Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:45 pm
Stom wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:28 pm
which did have some glaring holes in it.
...such as?
Though Roots is a bit weird.
Any 6 who isn’t Roots, for one.
That’s the opposite of a hole tho
