‘I think rugby will die in five-10 years if we do nothing’

[Puja]

Either way, you end up with a nonsense game full of reserves and both crowd and television audiences dwindle because half the games are meaningless.

Puja

[Banquo]

Either way, you end up with a nonsense game full of reserves and both crowd and television audiences dwindle because half the games are meaningless.

Puja

what's the skinny on crowds and TV viewers this season so far?

[Puja]

Not sure. Seems pretty good to me, although I suspect that the overall crowd averages are down on last year due to replacing Bristol with Irish.

Puja

[Puja]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41463454

And if you believe that, he's got a lovely bridge over the River Exe, newly on sale, one careful owner...

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, saw that; it cheered me up on a thoroughly miserable day.

[Digby]

Two rugby stories in the Times today, that an investigation will commence into the number of injuries being seen in the Premiership this season, with a view that the greater ball in play time, the higher number of rucks and the raised number of collisions might be responsible for the attrition rate reaching a level which is seeing A team games called off as they can't supply enough fit players. Also noted in that story is that with increased wages being paid the clubs have a lower number of players on staff, it's almost like players other than Billy V will not take a pay cut, and actually we'd likely doubt Billy V has or will actually take one.

The other story is that Altrad is rich, and he's helping to raise the level being paid to the top players, and suggests he's the most powerful man in world rugby, and that story also suggests Goosens is an arse.

There's another comment in the sport's section which grabbed my eye, Henry Winter saying football needs to stop producing dysfunctional men, and in the caption under a photo it says '(Rio) Ferdinand reveals that he did not even have to cut his own toenails during his time at United'. Now I'd happily agree footballers are spoilt little shits, but if you're paying someone the money top footballers are on to kick a ball then it seems eminently sensible to make sure they're being seen by a podiatrist to clean and trim toenails, it'd be highly unprofessional not to reduce that risk of an ingrowing or infected toenail. So it might be a valid point in the round, but it's a terrible example. And actually that sort of service to players in rugby doesn't seem untoward either, and some props even look chubby enough I'd wonder if they can even reach their toenails

[kk67]

Two rugby stories in the Times today, that an investigation will commence into the number of injuries being seen in the Premiership this season, with a view that the greater ball in play time, the higher number of rucks and the raised number of collisions might be responsible for the attrition rate reaching a level which is seeing A team games called off as they can't supply enough fit players.

We've seen high levels of continuity and tempo in other leagues for awhile. Hasn't been a problem.
AP collisions seem to be the problem.

[kk67]

There's another comment in the sport's section which grabbed my eye, Henry Winter saying football needs to stop producing dysfunctional men, and in the caption under a photo it says '(Rio) Ferdinand reveals that he did not even have to cut his own toenails during his time at United'. Now I'd happily agree footballers are spoilt little shits, but if you're paying someone the money top footballers are on to kick a ball then it seems eminently sensible to make sure they're being seen by a podiatrist to clean and trim toenails, it'd be highly unprofessional not to reduce that risk of an ingrowing or infected toenail. So it might be a valid point in the round, but it's a terrible example. And actually that sort of service to players in rugby doesn't seem untoward either, and some props even look chubby enough I'd wonder if they can even reach their toenails

Yup. If I was playing pro sport I'd expect the club to be paying for a podiatrist. I must have lost at least 3 toenails.
As to 'dysfunctional men', it seems that the majority of pro sportsmen are dysfunctional. I'd go further and say they are psychologically maladapted as a direct result of the intensity foisted upon them by others who live their lives vicariously through the ability of their charges.
What we used to call 'wankers'.

It does seem a bit ironic that we are now so obsessive about having former elite players as coaches. The game has moved on so far that players from 10 years ago have no more automatic authority than anyone else.
Ideally rugby should be a meritocracy........but that doesn't seem to be the case.
I'm not sure it ever was.

[bitts]

Just a thought, but would the majority of rugby players in the prem actually want a reduction in teams? Given that it would put a lot of people in the league out of work?

On a similar note, would reducing the number of games people are allowed to play not lead to lower wages on average.
While Billy may be happy with a pay cut, not sure everyone would.

I actually think shorter seasons could well be beneficial, but we shouldn't ignore the downside for people.

[Puja]

Just a thought, but would the majority of rugby players in the prem actually want a reduction in teams? Given that it would put a lot of people in the league out of work?

On a similar note, would reducing the number of games people are allowed to play not lead to lower wages on average.
While Billy may be happy with a pay cut, not sure everyone would.

I actually think shorter seasons could well be beneficial, but we shouldn't ignore the downside for people.

And there's your problem in a nutshell. Everyone on all sides agrees that it would be nice to have this solution, but no-one's willing to have less money except for Billy, and everyone's agreed that he's dafter than a box of frogs and shouldn't be allowed to speak in public anymore.

Frankly, it'd be the one situation where I'd be in favour of the RFU flogging the naming rights to Twickenham. Use the money to cover the losses of 4 games for the clubs and to support a fully pro 8-10 team Championship to provide a genuinely competitive second tier and cut the Gordian knot at the cost of our dignity.

Puja

[loudnconfident]

Or abolish "use it or lose it" - easy to referee the breakdown, and gets the forwards tussling and not in the backline. How many injuries are due to heavy tackling by fowards across the field.

[Which Tyler]

Puja.
I'd far rather do that at Prem level, whilst having a fully professional Champ.
Cutting the matches in the champ isn't likely to help the attrition in the Prem after all

[Puja]

Far rather do that at Prem level, whilst having a fully professional Champ.
Cutting the matches in the champ isn't likely to help the attrition in the Prem after all

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant cut two teams from the Prem and have a fully pro 8-10 team Champ to soften the blow of those relegated. So basically your plan that I've adopted over the years.

Puja

[kk67]

Wouldn't creating a European league be an easier solution ?.

[Which Tyler]

Wouldn't creating a European league be an easier solution ?.

Neither easier nor better IMO

[Puja]

Wouldn't creating a European league be an easier solution ?.

It would cause huge issues with condensing 12 top teams into 10 and would require massive financial remuneration. How do you think we'd be able to go from 12 top teams down to 4-6?

Puja

[Digby]

Wouldn't creating a European league be an easier solution ?.

It would cause huge issues with condensing 12 top teams into 10 and would require massive financial remuneration. How do you think we'd be able to go from 12 top teams down to 4-6?

Puja

Also I'd rather have an interest in our 10 or 12 club in the league than just 3-4 if we had to cut down as have the Irish, Scots and Welsh. And we already play those sides in the cup so there's no need to play them in a league too.

[kk67]

It was chatting about the SA teams joining the Pro 12 with a city boy at the club that started us spitballing the concept.
It would need to be 2 leagues. Europe 1, Europe 2: 2 relegated, 2 promoted.

[Puja]

Frankly, the only international leagues currently going have few away fans, poor crowds apart from derbies and finals, and have either had to kick out two crap SA sides or take in two crap SA sides in order to try and remain solvent. Whereas the AP has good crowds, good sponsorships, good rivalries and is producing good players. I'm willing to tinker with ours to reduce the number of games, but I don't see the value in tearing something up that's working pretty well.

Puja

[Banquo]

It was chatting about the SA teams joining the Pro 12 with a city boy at the club that started us spitballing the concept.
It would need to be 2 leagues. Europe 1, Europe 2: 2 relegated, 2 promoted.

spitballing.....cripes.

[kk67]

Frankly, the only international leagues currently going have few away fans, poor crowds apart from derbies and finals, and have either had to kick out two crap SA sides or take in two crap SA sides in order to try and remain solvent. Whereas the AP has good crowds, good sponsorships, good rivalries and is producing good players. I'm willing to tinker with ours to reduce the number of games, but I don't see the value in tearing something up that's working pretty well.

Puja

The thread title was '10 years from now'.
If the Saffers can make the jump I see no reason that logistics would be a problem.

The main problem seems to be that the RFU jumped into bed with Murdoch.

[Puja]

Frankly, the only international leagues currently going have few away fans, poor crowds apart from derbies and finals, and have either had to kick out two crap SA sides or take in two crap SA sides in order to try and remain solvent. Whereas the AP has good crowds, good sponsorships, good rivalries and is producing good players. I'm willing to tinker with ours to reduce the number of games, but I don't see the value in tearing something up that's working pretty well.

Puja

The thread title was '10 years from now'.
If the Saffers can make the jump I see no reason that logistics would be a problem.

The main problem seems to be that the RFU jumped into bed with Murdoch.

But what's our motivation? Our league is working fine right now, so why would we change to a Euro league when that likely wouldn't even reduce the number of games?

Puja

[kk67]

But what's our motivation? Our league is working fine right now, so why would we change to a Euro league when that likely wouldn't even reduce the number of games?

Puja

Is it..?. The media is giving me the impression that high continuity and loose rugby is causing injuries in your league.

[Puja]

But what's our motivation? Our league is working fine right now, so why would we change to a Euro league when that likely wouldn't even reduce the number of games?

Puja

Is it..?. The media is giving me the impression that high continuity and loose rugby is causing injuries in your league.

The media also believe that experts say tackling should be banned, Farrell is infallible, and that Stuart Barnes is a competent pundit. The media are generally idiots looking for clicks.

And even if it is true, how would a Euro League help that?

Puja

[kk67]

And even if it is true, how would a Euro League help that?

Puja

You'd have to play loose rugby and not 10 man.