RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Given the current squad

11 Watson
14 Solomona/Roko
15 Brown

Edit - I don't think that's true, left to me then from the current squad it'd be

11 Watson
14 Solomona/Roko
15 Lozowski

fair- I too think Watson a better winger at this point.

If I had May and Wade to pick from I'd move Watson to 15, and of course you think they edit is fair!

.....and if you had May and Roko....

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: fair- I too think Watson a better winger at this point.

If I had May and Wade to pick from I'd move Watson to 15, and of course you think they edit is fair!

.....and if you had May and Roko....

May would be left wing, Roko, Wade and Solomona can argue over the 14 shirt.

I'd want Daly back to really contest the 11 shirt.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
If I had May and Wade to pick from I'd move Watson to 15, and of course you think they edit is fair!

.....and if you had May and Roko....

May would be left wing, Roko, Wade and Solomona can argue over the 14 shirt.

I'd want Daly back to really contest the 11 shirt.

Me too, I really like Daly as an 11, and he will get a lot better there. if he was available, he'd be my first choice 11 (there is a case for him at 14, but his diagonal kicking looks to be of more use at 11, not to mention the outside break and more familiarity there).

Digby wrote: How many wingers combine genuine raw ability with polished game knowledge? Straight off the top of my head I've got Joe Roff and Sivivatu, but there can't be many.

Paul Sackey became quality at the breakdown. Nowell has clearly played Flanker when he was younger.

kk67 wrote:

Digby wrote: How many wingers combine genuine raw ability with polished game knowledge? Straight off the top of my head I've got Joe Roff and Sivivatu, but there can't be many.

Paul Sackey became quality at the breakdown. Nowell has clearly played Flanker when he was younger.

Both solid club wingers, both without the raw ability to scare the crap out of defenders

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:
.....and if you had May and Roko....

May would be left wing, Roko, Wade and Solomona can argue over the 14 shirt.

I'd want Daly back to really contest the 11 shirt.

Me too, I really like Daly as an 11, and he will get a lot better there. if he was available, he'd be my first choice 11 (there is a case for him at 14, but his diagonal kicking looks to be of more use at 11, not to mention the outside break and more familiarity there).

I'm surprised still how good he looks at 11, his error rate at 13 looks worse if anything

Digby wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Digby wrote: How many wingers combine genuine raw ability with polished game knowledge? Straight off the top of my head I've got Joe Roff and Sivivatu, but there can't be many.

Paul Sackey became quality at the breakdown. Nowell has clearly played Flanker when he was younger.

Both solid club wingers, both without the raw ability to scare the crap out of defenders

Depends on how they are utilized. Dai Duckham, Shane.....etc.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
May would be left wing, Roko, Wade and Solomona can argue over the 14 shirt.

I'd want Daly back to really contest the 11 shirt.

Me too, I really like Daly as an 11, and he will get a lot better there. if he was available, he'd be my first choice 11 (there is a case for him at 14, but his diagonal kicking looks to be of more use at 11, not to mention the outside break and more familiarity there).

I'm surprised still how good he looks at 11, his error rate at 13 looks worse if anything

agreed, he's done extremely well

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: I have, I was just laughing at the thought of May, a well known space cadet, being seen as a font of any sort of knowledge.

Knowledge is probably the wrong word - instinct would be better. Roko doesn't find himself in the right place to make an impact as often as other wingers in the Prem. I'd be interested to know how many carries the Fantasy Rugby Opta stats has him down as having this season compared to May, if someone's willing to look that up. I can't access it at work.

Puja

I'll try one last time- its possible that May and Roko are given different remits by their coaches. Anyway, its pleasing that May is developing- it perhaps helps being in a better team (arguable, I know ).

It turns out that the Opta stats don't track carries. However, I had a look at the other stats. Both players 7 games, 7 tries, similar numbers of defenders beaten and metres made, so far, so hoopy. However, May has made 63 passes in his 7 games this season. Rokoduguni has made 8.

I'll grant you that they may have been given different remits by their coaches. However a player who has an average of just over 1 pass per game has very little defence if the national coach says that he doesn't put himself about enough.

Puja

ETA. Just checked to see how other EQ back 3 in the Prem compare - Watson has 42 from 6 games (so 48 if we pro-rata up), Yarde has 26 from 6 (so 30), Brown has a shocking 69 from 5 (so 97), even Solomona's got 16 from 7. It suggests that either we've been unfairly maligning Brown and Roko is the poster-boy for never looking to his support, or Roko doesn't get his hands on the ball very much outside of his big eye-catching breaks.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
Knowledge is probably the wrong word - instinct would be better. Roko doesn't find himself in the right place to make an impact as often as other wingers in the Prem. I'd be interested to know how many carries the Fantasy Rugby Opta stats has him down as having this season compared to May, if someone's willing to look that up. I can't access it at work.

Puja

I'll try one last time- its possible that May and Roko are given different remits by their coaches. Anyway, its pleasing that May is developing- it perhaps helps being in a better team (arguable, I know ).

It turns out that the Opta stats don't track carries. However, I had a look at the other stats. Both players 7 games, 7 tries, similar numbers of defenders beaten and metres made, so far, so hoopy. However, May has made 63 passes in his 7 games this season. Rokoduguni has made 8.

I'll grant you that they may have been given different remits by their coaches. However a player who has an average of just over 1 pass per game has very little defence if the national coach says that he doesn't put himself about enough.

Puja

ETA. Just checked to see how other EQ back 3 in the Prem compare - Watson has 42 from 6 games (so 48 if we pro-rata up), Yarde has 26 from 6 (so 30), Brown has a shocking 69 from 5 (so 97), even Solomona's got 16 from 7. It suggests that either we've been unfairly maligning Brown and Roko is the poster-boy for never looking to his support, or Roko doesn't get his hands on the ball very much outside of his big eye-catching breaks.

That's a lot of work you've done . He made two against Benetton, then I gave up

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote: I'll try one last time- its possible that May and Roko are given different remits by their coaches. Anyway, its pleasing that May is developing- it perhaps helps being in a better team (arguable, I know ).

It turns out that the Opta stats don't track carries. However, I had a look at the other stats. Both players 7 games, 7 tries, similar numbers of defenders beaten and metres made, so far, so hoopy. However, May has made 63 passes in his 7 games this season. Rokoduguni has made 8.

I'll grant you that they may have been given different remits by their coaches. However a player who has an average of just over 1 pass per game has very little defence if the national coach says that he doesn't put himself about enough.

Puja

ETA. Just checked to see how other EQ back 3 in the Prem compare - Watson has 42 from 6 games (so 48 if we pro-rata up), Yarde has 26 from 6 (so 30), Brown has a shocking 69 from 5 (so 97), even Solomona's got 16 from 7. It suggests that either we've been unfairly maligning Brown and Roko is the poster-boy for never looking to his support, or Roko doesn't get his hands on the ball very much outside of his big eye-catching breaks.

That's a lot of work you've done

Just call me Juggler.

I do love this stats package that you get with the Fantasy Rugby, cause that was actually bog all work at all. Just copied into a spreadsheet and bob's your mother's brother. Even if the game itself were crap, it'd be worth the entry fee just for those.

I do worry slightly about the effects of this board having access to stats to back up their opinions though. Not sure anyone's quite ready for that.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
It turns out that the Opta stats don't track carries. However, I had a look at the other stats. Both players 7 games, 7 tries, similar numbers of defenders beaten and metres made, so far, so hoopy. However, May has made 63 passes in his 7 games this season. Rokoduguni has made 8.

I'll grant you that they may have been given different remits by their coaches. However a player who has an average of just over 1 pass per game has very little defence if the national coach says that he doesn't put himself about enough.

Puja

ETA. Just checked to see how other EQ back 3 in the Prem compare - Watson has 42 from 6 games (so 48 if we pro-rata up), Yarde has 26 from 6 (so 30), Brown has a shocking 69 from 5 (so 97), even Solomona's got 16 from 7. It suggests that either we've been unfairly maligning Brown and Roko is the poster-boy for never looking to his support, or Roko doesn't get his hands on the ball very much outside of his big eye-catching breaks.

That's a lot of work you've done

Just call me Juggler.

I do love this stats package that you get with the Fantasy Rugby, cause that was actually bog all work at all. Just copied into a spreadsheet and bob's your mother's brother. Even if the game itself were crap, it'd be worth the entry fee just for those.

I do worry slightly about the effects of this board having access to stats to back up their opinions though. Not sure anyone's quite ready for that.

Puja

not sure stats can ever really do that tbh, there's nothing like actually seeing what and when and how. But they may give clues as to what to watch for next time.

Prior to the Gloucester game I did see that Bath have had the least amount of possession of any team in the league...so that’s another thing to pro-rata out

Timbo wrote:Prior to the Gloucester game I did see that Bath have had the least amount of possession of any team in the league...so that’s another thing to pro-rata out

If it were close, I'd give you that. But he's literally half of his nearest competitor and a tenth of Brown, who allegedly never passes!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:Prior to the Gloucester game I did see that Bath have had the least amount of possession of any team in the league...so that’s another thing to pro-rata out

If it were close, I'd give you that. But he's literally half of his nearest competitor and a tenth of Brown, who allegedly never passes!

Puja

I am not a big fan of Brown, but to give him his due, he looked a different player against Argentina in the summer tests when he passed the ball much more than he had done in he past, and showed a different and very effective all-round FB game. Don't know if this was a coaching issue or what. Plus he is a feisty competitor who is not about to give up his England shirt without a scrap.

Spiffy wrote:

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:Prior to the Gloucester game I did see that Bath have had the least amount of possession of any team in the league...so that’s another thing to pro-rata out

If it were close, I'd give you that. But he's literally half of his nearest competitor and a tenth of Brown, who allegedly never passes!

Puja

I am not a big fan of Brown, but to give him his due, he looked a different player against Argentina in the summer tests when he passed the ball much more than he had done in he past, and showed a different and very effective all-round FB game. Don't know if this was a coaching issue or what. Plus he is a feisty competitor who is not about to give up his England shirt without a scrap.

He has been passing a lot for Quins. Problem is quality. Great competitor, and unorthodox....but...

Banquo wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Puja wrote:
If it were close, I'd give you that. But he's literally half of his nearest competitor and a tenth of Brown, who allegedly never passes!

Puja

I am not a big fan of Brown, but to give him his due, he looked a different player against Argentina in the summer tests when he passed the ball much more than he had done in he past, and showed a different and very effective all-round FB game. Don't know if this was a coaching issue or what. Plus he is a feisty competitor who is not about to give up his England shirt without a scrap.

He has been passing a lot for Quins. Problem is quality. Great competitor, and unorthodox....but...

The problem now is we don't have a young Foden ready to take over from Brown, we have Watson who in different fashion shows the same inability to link centre and back three play

I still think Daly should be playing there. I think Jones would have a mind to try it out but with various injuries getting in the way I’m not sure we’ll see it now before the World Cup.

I still think it's where Nowell should be playing

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
I am not a big fan of Brown, but to give him his due, he looked a different player against Argentina in the summer tests when he passed the ball much more than he had done in he past, and showed a different and very effective all-round FB game. Don't know if this was a coaching issue or what. Plus he is a feisty competitor who is not about to give up his England shirt without a scrap.

He has been passing a lot for Quins. Problem is quality. Great competitor, and unorthodox....but...

The problem now is we don't have a young Foden ready to take over from Brown, we have Watson who in different fashion shows the same inability to link centre and back three play

This is true, but as you know, I blame the Bath half backs , and you blame Max

Which Tyler wrote:I still think it's where Nowell should be playing

The problem with both yours and Mikey's proposals, is that neither play there anything like regularly enough at club level, and here as much as any position, you need positional skills and experience.

I was meaning that Nowell should be playing there at club level.

However, if we want our FBs to be playing there at club level (or our winger for that matter)- why on earth do so many people champion Watson at FB and Daly at wing?

Which Tyler wrote:I was meaning that Nowell should be playing there at club level.

However, if we want our FBs to be playing there at club level (or our winger for that matter)- why on earth do so many people champion Watson at FB and Daly at wing?

Good one

but if you are being serious, I did not support Daly going to the wing, but he has adapted very well- and fair play to him, imo its quite a stretch moving from 11 to 14 and vice versa, let alone 13 to wing (but he has played all three positions, so that would have helped). Its another set of positional issues at 15, however.

Which Tyler wrote:I was meaning that Nowell should be playing there at club level.

However, if we want our FBs to be playing there at club level (or our winger for that matter)- why on earth do so many people champion Watson at FB and Daly at wing?

How often is Watson not now the 15 at Bath? It would from the outside seem unlikely Homer would be selected ahead of him, which leaves Burns as a possible 15 I suppose, so Burns for England as a 15?

Digby wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:I was meaning that Nowell should be playing there at club level.

However, if we want our FBs to be playing there at club level (or our winger for that matter)- why on earth do so many people champion Watson at FB and Daly at wing?

How often is Watson not now the 15 at Bath? It would from the outside seem unlikely Homer would be selected ahead of him, which leaves Burns as a possible 15 I suppose, so Burns for England as a 15?

I think its at least 50% tongue in cheek