Eng - Wal...Match Thread

[WaspInWales]

Anyone watching the ladies play?

Just seen some weird interaction with the tmo. England crashed over but the grounding wasn't clear to the ref. It went upstairs with 'is there any reason not to award the try'. Tmo reviewed and there was no clear grounding but he replied that there was no reason not to award the try. Ref seemed confused and questioned if the ball was grounded and the tmo replied no but no reason not to award or something like that. Then the ref said 'so scrum 5 white ball?'. Tmo said ok.

Did I hear all that right?

[Tom Moore]

This slam wouldn't be so grand anyway. Devalued, if you will.

Slam's a Slam. You can only beat whats in front of you.

[CunningPunter]

I thought Joubert had a reasonable game today - nice and clear in instructions to the players. I agree the to-and-fro with the TMO about Cole's failed attempt was puzzling. (And felt a bit sorry for Cole - achieves the rare feat of holding up his own touchdown, some Welsh gorilla tries to pull his nose off, and then gets carded.)

And while I'm on, I liked the ref Gardner in the Ireland/Italy game - I thought he and the TMO worked well together in a businesslike fashion.

[Puja]

Nowell isn't good enough - when a winger gets praised for tidying up crap and gets seriously burnt twice by his opposite number it says it all.

This baffles me. I'm fairly certain I saw the same incidents as you, where England's defence was very tight and an excellent pass put North on the outside, but I saw Nowell keeping pace with North and using the angle to cut him off. I was going to reference it on here as evidence that Nowell isn't actually slow, as he kept the same pace and acceleration from a standing start as North.

Puja

[belgarion]

Anyone watching the ladies play?

Just seen some weird interaction with the tmo. England crashed over but the grounding wasn't clear to the ref. It went upstairs with 'is there any reason not to award the try'. Tmo reviewed and there was no clear grounding but he replied that there was no reason not to award the try. Ref seemed confused and questioned if the ball was grounded and the tmo replied no but no reason not to award or something like that. Then the ref said 'so scrum 5 white ball?'. Tmo said ok.

Did I hear all that right?

As the ref asked 'Is there any reason not to award the try' it meant he was 99% sure it was a try & just needed confirmation so when the TMO said answered 'No reason not to award the try' he should have just given it NOT re-questioned the TMO. THe better question is 'Try yes or no' which is what Joubert asked with Cole's effort

[Rich]

I can't think of a reason to not support Scotland over France, even in a normal year

If I told you the Scotland team was full of Scots ?


The last time I supported Scots over Frenchmen was the battle of Waterloo (1815)

[bitts]

I'm a huge Ford fan, and thought he actually had a good first half. Some good touches in attack and some good defence

Then the charge down came and he lost his confidence again. It was a bit of an unlucky charge down, awful pass, no option to pass and great play from bigger. Not entirely sure why he tried to bulldoze Jamie Roberts though.

Fact is, he went away to the World Cup the best FH we've had in ages, then got Lancastered and came back to whatever the hell is happening at Bath. I don't know whether it's best to play him back into form or give him a break. That's Eddie call. As much as it's fashionable to say Faz is the answer, I still don't rate him. He's tidy but nothing else. The Nowell of FH's as some would say (not me, but some).

On the plus side, this is as low an ebb as this team should have (in terms of development) and they should get a title and a GS. That's not terrible.

Jones looks to be trying to replace some of the rubbish generation with younger players, Itoje is immense, Watson looks like he's on his way to World Class and we've got some shape.

Given where we've been, this is not a bad start.

[p/d]

Nowell isn't good enough - when a winger gets praised for tidying up crap and gets seriously burnt twice by his opposite number it says it all.

This baffles me. I'm fairly certain I saw the same incidents as you, where England's defence was very tight and an excellent pass put North on the outside, but I saw Nowell keeping pace with North and using the angle to cut him off. I was going to reference it on here as evidence that Nowell isn't actually slow, as he kept the same pace and acceleration from a standing start as North.

Puja

Likewise Puja. And I'm not that fussed about Nowell, but today I saw why he is in the side.

[Bloggs]

I can't think of a reason to not support Scotland over France, even in a normal year

If I told you the Scotland team was full of Scots ?


The last time I supported Scots over Frenchmen was the battle of Waterloo (1815)

Shame the team isn't full of Scots

[skidger]

Nowell isn't good enough - when a winger gets praised for tidying up crap and gets seriously burnt twice by his opposite number it says it all.

This baffles me. I'm fairly certain I saw the same incidents as you, where England's defence was very tight and an excellent pass put North on the outside, but I saw Nowell keeping pace with North and using the angle to cut him off. I was going to reference it on here as evidence that Nowell isn't actually slow, as he kept the same pace and acceleration from a standing start as North.

Puja

Likewise Puja. And I'm not that fussed about Nowell, but today I saw why he is in the side.

I like his blue hat also.

[skidger]

I'm a huge Ford fan, and thought he actually had a good first half. Some good touches in attack and some good defence

Then the charge down came and he lost his confidence again. It was a bit of an unlucky charge down, awful pass, no option to pass and great play from bigger. Not entirely sure why he tried to bulldoze Jamie Roberts though.

Fact is, he went away to the World Cup the best FH we've had in ages, then got Lancastered and came back to whatever the hell is happening at Bath. I don't know whether it's best to play him back into form or give him a break. That's Eddie call. As much as it's fashionable to say Faz is the answer, I still don't rate him. He's tidy but nothing else. The Nowell of FH's as some would say (not me, but some).

On the plus side, this is as low an ebb as this team should have (in terms of development) and they should get a title and a GS. That's not terrible.

Jones looks to be trying to replace some of the rubbish generation with younger players, Itoje is immense, Watson looks like he's on his way to World Class and we've got some shape.

Given where we've been, this is not a bad start.

I thought Ford went quite well and has my sympathy for starting outside of Youngs.

[p/d]

This baffles me. I'm fairly certain I saw the same incidents as you, where England's defence was very tight and an excellent pass put North on the outside, but I saw Nowell keeping pace with North and using the angle to cut him off. I was going to reference it on here as evidence that Nowell isn't actually slow, as he kept the same pace and acceleration from a standing start as North.

Puja

Likewise Puja. And I'm not that fussed about Nowell, but today I saw why he is in the side.

I like his blue hat also.

I'm also fond of Mediterranean blue leather

[skidger]

Likewise Puja. And I'm not that fussed about Nowell, but today I saw why he is in the side.

I like his blue hat also.

I'm also fond of Mediterranean blue leather

Do you still have the jacket?

[p/d]

I like his blue hat also.

I'm also fond of Mediterranean blue leather

Do you still have the jacket?

I cling to the 80's, both in vinyl and new romantic attire.

[thedman]

IMO making planned tactical changes in the backline doesn't work out the vast majority of the time and can easily backfire. I agree with SCW on this. The idea that someone like Manu can come on for the last 20 minutes and blast holes in a tiring opposition may sound good in theory but rarely seems to work out in practice. I've always thought this. It works for NZ with SBW but that is an exception.

I'm not including scrum half where a change often makes a big difference.

[MerryCherry]

Wouldn't be too complimentary of Nowell given how easily North got away from him twice.

He wouldn't have sped past Jonny May, hopefully Nowell's a place-holder.

[Beasties]

IMO making planned tactical changes in the backline doesn't work out the vast majority of the time and can easily backfire. I agree with SCW on this. The idea that someone like Manu can come on for the last 20 minutes and blast holes in a tiring opposition may sound good in theory but rarely seems to work out in practice. I've always thought this. It works for NZ with SBW but that is an exception.

I'm not including scrum half where a change often makes a big difference.

Especially when the SH's Youngs.

[Mikey Brown]

Is that end of Youngs do we think? Or is his kicking and occasional defence (at the expense of a functioning backline) enough for Jones?

[Beasties]

Telegraph gave Youngs 8/10. I need to start drinking during games. Actually that's far from the worst I've seen Youngs play, but there was still the usual display of special passing, slow passing and space sapping sideways ambling, all of which got worse the longer he stayed on. The fact that Care was simply better is not a huge compliment to Care.

Fazlet had an adequate game but I'd far rather we aim higher than adequate. Did no one else think LCD should've tackled Faletau?

[thedman]

Telegraph gave Youngs 8/10. I need to start drinking during games. Actually that's far from the worst I've seen Youngs play, but there was still the usual display of special passing, slow passing and space sapping sideways ambling, all of which got worse the longer he stayed on. The fact that Care was simply better is not a huge compliment to Care.

Fazlet had an adequate game but I'd far rather we aim higher than adequate. Did no one else think LCD should've tackled Faletau?

I was just about to post the Telegraph rating. BTW, The Guardian and Indy both gave Youngs 7/10. They all compliment his sniping and kicking but seem to not notice (or overlook?) all the other problems.

I agree it was far from his worst display, though.

[Mikey Brown]

Even though his "sniping" is mostly just indecision that leads to him adding a defender along with his awful pass? He is just atrocious. I cannot erap my head around it. There were a few opportunities where we had massive numbers over and he just clutched on to the ball and took contact, facing backwards and standing still, as of he has completely accepted that he is terrible at passing.

Care did nothing great at all and was a good 5 or 6 marks higher.

[skidger]

Is that end of Youngs do we think? Or is his kicking and occasional defence (at the expense of a functioning backline) enough for Jones?

Not sure it will be the end and i think he will probably start next week. I just cannot get my head around he is still a pretty lousy passer of the ball and has the caps he has. When he is replaced i will miss the passes to players heads and shoe laces. The gift that keeps on giving.

[Galfon]

I rate Ford and England look more of a team able to score points and win things with him at 10.
1 try conceded in the tournament up to the chargedown / binning/ subbing period indicates capable defence as a team...
He seems a confidence player though and doesn't seem comfortable knowing his just holding the shirt due to injuries...understandable but we don't know what EJ has told him about this.
I don't blame him for the chargedown other than not clocking Biggar's charge, it was running into Roberts earlier with men outside that was a poor decision for that time/place.
Young's overall contribution was ok, but his passing at this level will always be below par.
Care's miss on Faletau means he doesn't get a mention re. passing.

[fivepointer]

I'm no fan of Youngs but I thought he gave an acceptable performance. Sure, there were the usual passes to no one in particular or around the boot laces, but for once his stepping and probing did manage to create the odd opening. Its a 6 out of 10 at best, but when his usual efforts barely scrape a 4 that does represent some improvement. He shouldnt be in the squad however and Care is a much better player.

Ford just doesnt look comfortable to me. He's not challenging the gain line and seems to be just a bit inhibited. His charge down was poor - and I accept the pass from Youngs wasnt great.

And LCD should have made the tackle on Felatau. Thats bread and butter stuff 5 meters out at this level.

[twitchy]

I have to say that last 20 mins is a bit of a blur. Was it just a coincidence that it happened when manu was on? Or am I being too literal here and wales just cut us up. Or was it both?