RugbyRebels

Well, this thread has taken a turn for the depressing!

I wonder if rugby will end up a little like US Football in the states. People play it up to the end of college or so then pretty much stop if they’re not going to be pro, as they have to get a job. I think society over here has definitely become more individualistic, and whilst we’re not at American levels of the cult of the individual, perhaps that’s the trend.

How depressing. To go off on another tangent, I reckon the pro14 may end up operating some sort of nfl conference system with pods of teams in Ireland, wales & Scotland, South Africa, maybe Italy and the continent, and some on the eastern seaboard in North America (inc Canada).

I’m still depressed tho.

Big D wrote:It is also no coincidence if Dunfermline are strong that those sides are not.

To be honest it is pretty good that 4 of the Fife sides regularly get 2 sides out as often as they do. Plus all the Midlands teams that gets 1s out (even with 14). I have noticed a few things that also will hurt numbers (some specific to Midlands rugby).

1. Some clubs have lost their u18 teams due to lack of numbers. This will in turn hurt 1st and 2nd senior sides.

2. The SRU threaten fines to sides who can't fulfil league fixtures. Years ago some 2nd XVs were added to the leagues to try and help pad out fixture lists.

3. Not splitting Midlands and north resulting in daft amounts of travel for small clubs.

4. Probably having too many rugby clubs competing in small areas.

5. Schools not coaching rugby as much. This means the clubs have to go into schools when/if they can.

I spoke to a mate who is a former Dunf player last night. He confirmed that they have a big uptick in numbers after an intensive recruitment campaign. A lot of them are either new to the game or folk who have moved into the gazillion new houses that have been built in Dunfermline.
I really don’t think Dunfermline’s increase in numbers has got anything to do with other clubs struggling. If time is a problem, why would you travel from Tillicoultry or Alloa to Dunfermline?

General Zod wrote:Well, this thread has taken a turn for the depressing!

I wonder if rugby will end up a little like US Football in the states. People play it up to the end of college or so then pretty much stop if they’re not going to be pro, as they have to get a job. I think society over here has definitely become more individualistic, and whilst we’re not at American levels of the cult of the individual, perhaps that’s the trend.

How depressing. To go off on another tangent, I reckon the pro14 may end up operating some sort of nfl conference system with pods of teams in Ireland, wales & Scotland, South Africa, maybe Italy and the continent, and some on the eastern seaboard in North America (inc Canada).

I’m still depressed tho.

That would be my bet. It seems to me that we’re turning into a nation of spectators.

Stones of granite wrote:

Big D wrote:It is also no coincidence if Dunfermline are strong that those sides are not.

To be honest it is pretty good that 4 of the Fife sides regularly get 2 sides out as often as they do. Plus all the Midlands teams that gets 1s out (even with 14). I have noticed a few things that also will hurt numbers (some specific to Midlands rugby).

1. Some clubs have lost their u18 teams due to lack of numbers. This will in turn hurt 1st and 2nd senior sides.

2. The SRU threaten fines to sides who can't fulfil league fixtures. Years ago some 2nd XVs were added to the leagues to try and help pad out fixture lists.

3. Not splitting Midlands and north resulting in daft amounts of travel for small clubs.

4. Probably having too many rugby clubs competing in small areas.

5. Schools not coaching rugby as much. This means the clubs have to go into schools when/if they can.

I spoke to a mate who is a former Dunf player last night. He confirmed that they have a big uptick in numbers after an intensive recruitment campaign. A lot of them are either new to the game or folk who have moved into the gazillion new houses that have been built in Dunfermline.
I really don’t think Dunfermline’s increase in numbers has got anything to do with other clubs struggling. If time is a problem, why would you travel from Tillicoultry or Alloa to Dunfermline?

There used to be a fair few ex Dunfermline boys travel to Allow to play 1s. Guys who weren't good enough for Dunfermline 1s but didn't want to play 2s etc. May not happen anymore for a couple of years it did.

There has also been a vacuum created by the S6 teams. County will have had to recruit for their senior squads and that will pull out players from smaller clubs. That shouldn't have a massive effect but well over 100 players have been pulled from the player pool and they will draw in players to the "old" clubs of the S6 teams. That doesn't sort playing numbers obviously but a reason lower league teams may struggle.

This isn't exactly a new thing, and I have huge admiration for teams in regional leagues that show up to games knowing they are going to take a beating. Fulfilling fixtures with 14 men from the start is a really tough shift. I remember having to do it in the old National 3 and 4. It isn't fun, but clubs need to maintain a 1st XV for a variety of reasons.

In my view some of the best club houses to be in and around are the regional clubs, it would be a real shame to lose any of these clubs due to lack of playing numbers.

On the bbc website that there's an alarming drop in numbers playing in NZ too. We'll all be tier 2 soon.

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Article in the herald from Stuart Bathgate implicitly not holding out much hope for the 6 nations and touting Cockerill for the next Scotland coach...

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17 ... tland-job/

I can understand the temptation, but if we keep promoting any club coach who does remotely well after a single season the clubs never push on. The players and coaches never really get as far as even being properly competitive in Europe. Who replaces Cockerill in this instance.

Who came in for Robinson when he left Edinburgh?

Mikey Brown wrote: Who came in for Robinson when he left Edinburgh?

Michael Bradley IIRC.

I would be really concerned if Cockerill became Scotland coach without some really stellar assistants. He has done well on the whole at Edinburgh (although last season was very mixed) but they have had some clear weaknesses. Last season's game plan would have got nowhere at international level where the same pack wouldn't have been so dominant.

They were also dull to watch and I don't want to go back to those days for Scotland. Let him try and develop Edinburgh into a rounded team and get some kind of sustained success.

Cameo wrote:I would be really concerned if Cockerill became Scotland coach without some really stellar assistants. He has done well on the whole at Edinburgh (although last season was very mixed) but they have had some clear weaknesses. Last season's game plan would have got nowhere at international level where the same pack wouldn't have been so dominant.

They were also dull to watch and I don't want to go back to those days for Scotland. Let him try and develop Edinburgh into a rounded team and get some kind of sustained success.

By then same token, he was robbed of Scott and Bennett who were never really fit all year ("chunky" version of Scott aside). They still played good rugby at times but he would definitely need a good supporting staff.

To be fair though, many international coaching staffs are full of good coaches. Townsend should have done the same but stuck with his pal Taylor.

Big D wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote: Who came in for Robinson when he left Edinburgh?

Michael Bradley IIRC.

Blackadder > Howells > Robinson > Bradley > Solomons > Hodge > Cockerill

Some real shite in there.

leave him at Edinburgh FFS, lets get some stability in the pro teams, let him try and build something meaningful. Scottish rugby needs successful pro teams more than it needs another brief go on the intl coaching merrygoround.

Oh well, if its Cockerill then so be it, we just have to support him and hope he has good assistants/coaches working alongside him so in other words, get Mikey Blair, Matt Taylor and the forwards coach to f*** and start from scratch. I would stick with Duncan Hodge as kicking coach as I don't see any issues with our kicking.

Plus, he needs to be given the full 4yr World Cup cycle so, even if we have poor 6Ns,changing coach will not do any good at all, as we have just found out at this world cup.

Then it's onto the players, we need to start some of the youngsters/eligible players that are mentioned in the "Next Scotland players for the future" thread so that they can get used to International Rugby and then be ready for a good 2023 World Cup.

My opinion is that he still needs to win things with Edinburgh to even be considered for the Scotland job but what will be, will be, we just have to support whatever they decide, if we agree with that or not.

Edinburgh could have won 6 out of 6 if Berghan had not run an intercept line but they had a big drop off at the end of last season.

I think Toonie needs new assistants (taylor has to go) and he needs the DOR to reign in some of the more crazy stuff) but if the game is moving away from the monster power plays then scotland are well placed to adapt, decent fitness and decent skills but do need a forward pack that can generate the ball for the backs and a sh that moves faster than a glacier

there isn't a vacancy. HTH

Edwards in advanced talks with France apparently.

Cannot believe the SRU are missing this boat.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Edwards in advanced talks with France apparently.

Cannot believe the SRU are missing this boat.

in the past 6 months he has been in advanced talks with Wales, then France then some Rugby League outfit, then Wales again then France again.

Sometimes its hard to tie down a mental case to anything. Hope he goes to France, doubt he'll last a season there. And be much cheaper after it

I'm guessing Malinder has known that Wilson is moving over to Glasgow for a while and has already been looking for a new fwds coach. Any speculation as to who it might be?

And Taylor to follow Rennie or is that just a rumour?

Mikey Brown wrote:And Taylor to follow Rennie or is that just a rumour?

Just a rumour at the moment, but the Taylor to Oz rumour that's been floating around since before Rennie was even linked to the job. Probably because of the SJ link. I've seen it suggested that if Rennie does take him then Taylor will be heading down there sooner rather than later, to get things in place.

Chunks Baws wrote:I'm guessing Malinder has known that Wilson is moving over to Glasgow for a while and has already been looking for a new fwds coach. Any speculation as to who it might be?

Complete speculation...based only on the longstanding connection with Mallinder....but Dorian West?
Though I think he signed a contract with Sale recently.

What's Wagga up to - still at Montpol?

We are hamstrung until we know for sure GT will be coach long term.

A 0-5 or 1-4 (depending on performance) 6N could be the end of that.

Big D wrote:We are hamstrung until we know for sure GT will be coach long term.

A 0-5 or 1-4 (depending on performance) 6N could be the end of that.

SA and NZ away in the summer will be a joy whoever is taking charge.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Big D wrote:We are hamstrung until we know for sure GT will be coach long term.

A 0-5 or 1-4 (depending on performance) 6N could be the end of that.

SA and NZ away in the summer will be a joy whoever is taking charge.

We have been locked out of Tier 1 summer tours for years which has not been beneficial, so this is good news.

Tough of course but we need the players going to hostile environments to develop.