RugbyRebels

Fagerson is injured. If he wasn't that was the only real head scratcher IMO.

Big D wrote:

switchskier wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:1. Dell, Sutherland, Bhatti
2. McInally, Brown, Turner
3. Fagerson, Berghan, Nel
4. Cummings, Gilchrist
5. Gray, Toolis, Craig
6. Bradbury, Crosbie
7. Watson, Ritchie, Gordon
8. Du Preez, Haining

9. Price, Horne, Pyrgos
10. Russell, Hastings
11. Graham, McGuigan
12. Johnson, Scott
13. Harris, Jones, Hutchinson
14. Maitland, Steyn, Tagive
15. Hogg (c), Kinghorn

Right...

Tagive? Haining? Gordon? Not remotely close to first choice for their clubs and it's not as if there are other countries lining up to claim them. The whole point of Haining was that he'd be available during the 6N. Also annoyed at Steyn over Horne and Bennett. Feeling all a bit Greg about that squad.

Haining started the season strongly and is in there as a 3rd 8 and possibly 4th 6. He will be available for Edinburgh and if he isn't then at least one of the other back rows will be. That's not counting Fagerson and/or Skinner who may come back in later.

Steyn and Horne only very occasionally play the same position and I doubt in this case he is in the squad as a 13 rather than 4th choice wing given there are 3 other 13s in there.

I'd far rather have Horne in and Scott or Johnson able to fill at 12 than Steyn in the squad though. He's a good player but very military medium to me and I don't see him making the step up. We always look more dangerous with Horne in the side.

I'll admit not seeing Hainings early strong performances but that just means that to me he hasn't actually shown anything.

switchskier wrote:We always look more dangerous with Horne in the side.

Do we?

Ratu Tagive. Jesus tap-dancing Christ...

I don't know if any effort was made or not but it would have been nice to have seen the player base grown in respects to players that are at risk of being permanently tied to another country in the next few years - Dingwall, Redpath, Christie, Williams, etc.

Agree with others - Horne and Bennett over Harris and Steyn for sure.

It's a pretty poor squad either way - it will require a masterclass in tactics and strategy to make this six nations a success. So that's down to Toony and co.

Would certainly have picked R Gray over Toolis as well - unless his concussion is more serious than initially thought.

Gray is out with injury.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Ratu Tagive. Jesus tap-dancing Christ...

I don't know if any effort was made or not but it would have been nice to have seen the player base grown in respects to players that are at risk of being permanently tied to another country in the next few years - Dingwall, Redpath, Christie, Williams, etc.

Agree with others - Horne and Bennett over Harris and Steyn for sure.

It's a pretty poor squad either way - it will require a masterclass in tactics and strategy to make this six nations a success. So that's down to Toony and co.

Would certainly have picked R Gray over Toolis as well - unless his concussion is more serious than initially thought.

I would imagine they probably spoke to the exiles. I doubt they'd risk their earning potential* for a training camp especially after being involved with England at u20 or higher (Johnny Williams v Babas, although he is just back from his cancer enforced leave). Hutchison is the only one for a while that has been adamant he'll play for Scotland if selected.

* can't blame them really

Not considered through injury: Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors), Bruce Flockhart (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Toulouse), James Lang (Harlequins), Darcy Rae (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs), Blade Thomson (Scarlets).

The squad looks a bit odd but on reflection (and once you see that injury list) I don't think there is anyone left out who should be in there. There are a few random additions but I suspect they are there to give them a bit of exposure to the squad and see how they fit in rather than with the expectation they play.

Makes more sense to have Gordon or Haining there as squad filler rather than someone like Wilson. Still hoping Fagerson gets fit and gets a chance at some point.

Happy enough with Steyn in the squad and think they are right to have moved on from Horne. Bennett is unlucky and I wouldn't have Harris, but there are a lot of centres in contention so just the way it is.

I'd like to see a starting team of:

1. Dell (though tempted to start Sutherland depending on form)
2. McInally
3. Fagerson
4. Gray
5. Cummings
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Bradbury
9. Horne
10. Russell
11. Graham
12. Scott
13. Either Jones or Hutchinson (can't decide)
14. Kinghorn
15. Hogg

16. Sutherland
17. Brown
18. Berghan
19. Gilchrist (Skinner as soon as he has proved fitness)
20. Crosbie (Fagerson once fit)
21. Price
22. Hutchinson
23. Maitland

Oops, forgot about Hastings for my bench. Would be tempted to put him and Hutchison on the basis that could always dump Jones on the wing if necessary but that might not be wise

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm not sure if a 38 man squad gets cut down or not. I would guess not.

there are no limits on squad sizes in the 6N. Could have named 52 if he wanted to, or 23 and called folk up as injuries occur. Obviously wouldn't do the latter but bear in mind that the 23 man squad and travelling reserves for Ireland has almost certainly already been chosen, subject to injury. The rest are there to familiarise themselves with tactics and plays if called in; and in a number of cases for the coaches to run their eyes over and work with in this environment

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:We always look more dangerous with Horne in the side.

Do we?

yes. Hugely under rated player who gives another option to take the play making away from Russell. Should have been a big lesson from Japan - shut down Russell and we were clueless and directionless, no options. Need to spread the creative threat

Squad is fine.

Some new lads in there to hold the tackle bags while Toony has a look at them. With one full training week between World Cup and first 6N game there was hardly going to be revolution.

Good thing is there are no critical injury issues unlike recent 6Ns (cue Russell and Hogg breaking this weekend)

For team I would go for Weeg front five (swap in Dell); Edinburgh back row; and current and former Weeg backs plus Darcy ie Horne, Russell, Maitland, Johnson, Jones, Graham, Hogg.

I have to hold my hand up and say I had never heard of Craig before this morning. Any opinions on him?

Gordon has looked pretty good in the last few Weeg games I've seen him play. He picked up a MoM a couple of months ago I seem to remember. Not bad as a backup 7 learning the plays and seeing if he can step up. Too early I think though.

Haining, I thought, played very well during the WC window, strong carries off the base of the scrum and some good carries through defensive lines.

Steyn, I'm not convinced can step up to the international level. Will be interesting to see if he makes a bench spot for Italy maybe as he can cover centre/wing

Tagive- wtf. I've seen nothing to make me think his inclusion is worthwhile other than we no longer have Seymour. I suppose he can run the wing spot in training patterns. Are we that bare on the wing until McVdM qualifies? Maybe should have convinced Tommy to stick around until he does

septic 9 wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

switchskier wrote:We always look more dangerous with Horne in the side.

Do we?

yes. Hugely under rated player who gives another option to take the play making away from Russell. Should have been a big lesson from Japan - shut down Russell and we were clueless and directionless, no options. Need to spread the creative threat

The theory is good but I’m not sure how often/consistently it played out that way.

On his day he’s a brilliant running and passing threat but his error rate is a problem.

Shut down Russell and we’re equally fucked because we have absolutely nobody who hits a hard line in midfield. We just continue passing it down the line, hoping to “find the edge” without ever committing any defenders.

Not that that’s all down to Horne, but he loved to throw a speculative long pass on those situations and they only rarely seemed to come off. Having Russel still doing those ridiculous loopy passes is bad enough.

I’d like to look at Hutchinson as a second playmaker if we’re taking that route.

Yep, Horne had his good days and is/was a better player than often given credit for but he is not one of our top centres now. If I'd seen more of Hutchinson (especially at 12), I might be onboard with him starting at 12 but it does feel a bit lightweight in defence

I don’t think he needs to be at 12 to offer that.

Mikey Brown wrote:

septic 9 wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Do we?

yes. Hugely under rated player who gives another option to take the play making away from Russell. Should have been a big lesson from Japan - shut down Russell and we were clueless and directionless, no options. Need to spread the creative threat

The theory is good but I’m not sure how often/consistently it played out that way.

On his day he’s a brilliant running and passing threat but his error rate is a problem.

Shut down Russell and we’re equally fucked because we have absolutely nobody who hits a hard line in midfield. We just continue passing it down the line, hoping to “find the edge” without ever committing any defenders.

Not that that’s all down to Horne, but he loved to throw a speculative long pass on those situations and they only rarely seemed to come off. Having Russel still doing those ridiculous loopy passes is bad enough.

I’d like to look at Hutchinson as a second playmaker if we’re taking that route.

You can't single out Horne for this. That's Toony-ball and it's down to the coach. Passing it down the line without having earned the right to go wide has been a feature in all performances under him.

It was notable Townsend name checked Lang. Which suggests he wanted to look at Lang as the 10/12 option but even that doesn't mean Horne is absolutely out the picture.

Horne is underrated but I don't think he is a better option right now than Johnson or Scott. Plus he well versed in Townsends systems etc so him and Wilson not being involved at this stage isn't a massive problem IMO.

Townsend on the new guys and the guys he's left out. Lang sounds promising. With all the talk about Hutchinson he's flown under the radar a bit.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/will-the ... x-nations/

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

septic 9 wrote:
yes. Hugely under rated player who gives another option to take the play making away from Russell. Should have been a big lesson from Japan - shut down Russell and we were clueless and directionless, no options. Need to spread the creative threat

The theory is good but I’m not sure how often/consistently it played out that way.

On his day he’s a brilliant running and passing threat but his error rate is a problem.

Shut down Russell and we’re equally fucked because we have absolutely nobody who hits a hard line in midfield. We just continue passing it down the line, hoping to “find the edge” without ever committing any defenders.

Not that that’s all down to Horne, but he loved to throw a speculative long pass on those situations and they only rarely seemed to come off. Having Russel still doing those ridiculous loopy passes is bad enough.

I’d like to look at Hutchinson as a second playmaker if we’re taking that route.

You can't single out Horne for this. That's Toony-ball and it's down to the coach. Passing it down the line without having earned the right to go wide has been a feature in all performances under him.

I mean I did say this wasn't because of Horne in the next sentence. I'm saying not having a hard runner in midfield (and generally just a static forward with their hands out is all we offer in terms of dummy runners) is a big part of why that tactic is so rarely effective for us.

But Horne's instinct in that situation often seems to be to try a mad pass without holding the line. Again maybe Toony is demanding this but it feels like a decision-making/execution thing that still comes down to the player to some degree.

Hutchinson has so much time on the ball and his decision making is generally fantastic. Particularly when he's slightly wider out and able to judge the biting point of the defence. If he can replicate that at the top level that would be great.

At 12 I just desperately want someone to straighten things up when Russell/Hastings inevitably decide they're going off for a wander. My heart says Scott (runs the most incisive lines) but head says Johnson (better hands/passing game).

Lang is a funny one. He's a good all round footballer, strong, very quick but I'm not sure is consistently worth the sum of his parts.

Chunks Baws wrote:Townsend on the new guys and the guys he's left out. Lang sounds promising. With all the talk about Hutchinson he's flown under the radar a bit.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/will-the ... x-nations/

Thought that the lines on Wilson and the need for more carrying were particularly interesting. The need was so apparent in Japan but it's good that they're looking into the backrow rather than using Taylor to cover up a lack there.

FYI for any SSC members - a handful of Calcutta cup tickets were made available this evening and are available to purchase on the official site. Limited to 2 per member.

I keep trying to put my XV down, but aside from the toss-ups at 1, 9 and 20 I can't work out who loses out on a bench spot in the backs. Hastings has to be there, so it feels like Johnson, Scott, Jones, Hutchinson, Maitland, Kinghorn vying for 1 spot.

Probably irrelevant anyway if we can't y'know, attack, defend, win a set-piece etc.

Mikey Brown wrote:I keep trying to put my XV down, but aside from the toss-ups at 1, 9 and 20 I can't work out who loses out on a bench spot in the backs. Hastings has to be there, so it feels like Johnson, Scott, Jones, Hutchinson, Maitland, Kinghorn vying for 1 spot.

Probably irrelevant anyway if we can't y'know, attack, defend, win a set-piece etc.

Out of that lot, probably Maitland. Who are your wings?

I’d probably start Graham, Maitland and Hogg. Maybe Scott at 12 and Hutch at 13. Am similarly undecided.

Well I got as far as 11. Graham 12. Scott/Johnson 13. Hutchinson/Jones 14. Maitland/Kinghorn before it seemed kind of pointless.

Kinghorn has a knack for being in the right place in attack, but Maitland is more reliable which might be nice given so many other changes. Kinghorn then becomes the logical choice on the bench, covering wing and fullback, but leaving Jones/Hutchinson out is tricky. Unlikely we'd bother with Scott or Johnson on the bench I guess.