RugbyRebels

The MISH will go, he just won player of the 6N

whatisthejava wrote:The MISH will go, he just won player of the 6N

It is a popularity contest to be fair. Would be interested to see voting county by country.

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Townsend and Tandy due to be named Lions coaches this week. Quite the rise for Tandy.

Reckon this nails Chris Harris on the plane, so important to Tandys defence

I think with two coaches 7-10 lions must be the target

whatisthejava wrote:Reckon this nails Chris Harris on the plane, so important to Tandys defence

I think with two coaches 7-10 lions must be the target

Whilst the gambler in me hopes Harris goes as i will win a tidy bet I am not convinced Harris will go.

I would fall off my chair in shock if we make up almost a quarter of the touring party. Regardless of who the coaches are the players still need to get in on merit otherwise our two would be just as bad as how some fans view Gatland.

FWIW, if anyone is a gabling type Harris was still at 8's or 6s to make the squad.

whatisthejava wrote:Reckon this nails Chris Harris on the plane, so important to Tandys defence

I think with two coaches 7-10 lions must be the target

how can you have target for this? You can't. And if its an aspiration, good luck and I don't need to know your lottery numbers

septic 9 wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Reckon this nails Chris Harris on the plane, so important to Tandys defence

I think with two coaches 7-10 lions must be the target

how can you have target for this? You can't. And if its an aspiration, good luck and I don't need to know your lottery numbers

Eddie Jones set a target of 20 english players on tour pre 6N.

I think expecting the scottish denfence and attack coach not to want their players is mental.

This is exactly what happened the last 4 tours so expecting lions coaches not to pick players they know and trust to gel in a short period is not exactly unexpected.

whatisthejava wrote:

septic 9 wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Reckon this nails Chris Harris on the plane, so important to Tandys defence

I think with two coaches 7-10 lions must be the target

how can you have target for this? You can't. And if its an aspiration, good luck and I don't need to know your lottery numbers

Eddie Jones set a target of 20 english players on tour pre 6N.

I think expecting the scottish denfence and attack coach not to want their players is mental.

This is exactly what happened the last 4 tours so expecting lions coaches not to pick players they know and trust to gel in a short period is not exactly unexpected.

so Eddie Jones set a target (did he, or say that he expected 20?) to massage his ever expanding ego. How is that going? He has as much chance of 20 English players as we have of 9. Setting target for this is ludicrous, pointless and laughable, sets yourself up to fail

Every coach given a choice of two equal players will always opt for the one he knows and better still has worked with. So yes, Toonie and Tandy if picked will get a voice; a voice inside Gatland's plan for the Lions team, how he wants them to play. And being professional coaches, they will act within that remit

Coaches as reported

Toony
McBryde
Tandy
Gatland


No english contigent

whatisthejava wrote:Coaches as reported

Toony
McBryde
Tandy
Gatland


No english contigent

Neil Jenkins is in there as well

OK, this is just slowly filling me with dread, maybe I have too much free time...

I am/was/have been of the opinion that this Lions tour is doomed from the start, SAF at home, fresh and with national rugby momentum (w/c), Corna, disruptions etc. Call me cynical I fully expect the Lions to go out and get horsed regardless of coach selection.

Now all I can see the Scotland coaching set up being the scape goats when it happens....


Edit: I thought this last time too (losing, not coaching) so am probably wrong.

AL. wrote:OK, this is just slowly filling me with dread, maybe I have too much free time...

I am/was/have been of the opinion that this Lions tour is doomed from the start, SAF at home, fresh and with national rugby momentum (w/c), Corna, disruptions etc. Call me cynical I fully expect the Lions to go out and get horsed regardless of coach selection.

Now all I can see the Scotland coaching set up being the scape goats when it happens....


Edit: I thought this last time too (losing, not coaching) so am probably wrong.

No I feel pretty similar. I'd accepted long ago there would be little Scottish involvement and I wouldn't be overly interested, but I can definitely see that scenario.

Who knows though, do SA remember how to play rugby at this point?

I feel like SA is another team where have a bit of a mental block, whether they're world champions or not, knowing they can pretty much trample over us if they're even remotely motivated. GT/Tandy, and whichever players are involved, getting a taste of how to set up a different side (with some very experienced coaches around them) to beat them has to be of some value.

AL. wrote:I am/was/have been of the opinion that this Lions tour is doomed from the start, SAF at home, fresh and with national rugby momentum (w/c), Corna, disruptions etc. Call me cynical I fully expect the Lions to go out and get horsed regardless of coach selection.

Do they still have momentum? They haven't played an international since the WC final IIRC. The Lions players have had a lot of international rugby in them this season.

They might still get horsed right enough.

Some England players may miss out on the British and Irish Lions tour because of their poor Six Nations form while there will be more Scots picked, says head coach Warren Gatland

According to the beeb

Suggests some sarries guys have credit in the bank but for me that would be Farrell and Itoje, doubt Daly or BV has enough credit in the bank

whatisthejava wrote:Some England players may miss out on the British and Irish Lions tour because of their poor Six Nations form while there will be more Scots picked, says head coach Warren Gatland

According to the beeb

Suggests some sarries guys have credit in the bank but for me that would be Farrell and Itoje, doubt Daly or BV has enough credit in the bank

To be honest, I think there would be 4; George (due to lack of 3 clear alternatives), Itoje, Farrell and Maitland who is as dependable as they come.

The Vunipola's while often good at what they do have serious questions around them. Billy, is clearly fitter than I, but I don't think he is cut out for the highveldt and teams have worked him out a bit. Mako is good, very good at times in the loose but his scrummaging just isn't up to it and I doubt he will get any better scrummaging against the championship teams he will be facing.

I do wonder whether we will see 4 of each front row position and 9 taken. With Covid about and the need for bubbles these are probably the hardest positions to mitigate losing someone and I can't see them wanting the test 1/2/3/16/17/18 backing up the game before the test match and the test match.

Forget how to multi quote, I just lurk normally....

Mikey, Big D - Momentum. Not sure they have momentum per se but the teams I have seen in the last year all seem to have this intangible something about them as though they have learned more and not physically practised rugby during the lockdown (except maybe England who seem to have gone backwards as though they were "there" in the first place), not sure I can explain what I mean, will think on it and get back....

I picture SAF being physically obscene (prepared) and tactically astute (prepared) due to all the time they have had, I think (not sure) SAF have had a hard time with Corona and they are the sort of team to rise when the country needs a boost, their world cup wins had a whiff of unifying the country about them and I see giving the Lions a hammering as a tonic for them. Might they want it more?

Supposedly the 4 coaches came up with their own 36 and when combined 20-22 names were the same accross the board

This would suggest me that there is still alot of disagreement

as i reckon the 20 prob looked like this

Sutherland, Wyn
Owens
Furlong
Itoje, AWJ, Ryan
Watson, Faletua, Beine

Russel, Bigger Zammit, Hogg, Adams, Farrell, Price , Henshaw

(Thats actually really hard to try and pick guys so clearly above everyone else they made all 5 coaches lists)

Its not neccessary the best players but guys who are in the top 2 of their position

Guys that miss out for me on that
All scottish hookers
Gray
Richie, Curry, all 8s bar Faletua
Z Fagerson , Francis, Sinkler
Henderson
Both vinipolos
All irish wings, english and scottish wings
All centres bar Henshaw
Sexton I think wont make Townsend list

whatisthejava wrote:Supposedly the 4 coaches came up with their own 36 and when combined 20-22 names were the same accross the board

This would suggest me that there is still alot of disagreement

as i reckon the 20 prob looked like this

Sutherland, Wyn
Owens
Furlong
Itoje, AWJ, Ryan
Watson, Faletua, Beine

Russel, Bigger Zammit, Hogg, Adams, Farrell, Price , Henshaw

(Thats actually really hard to try and pick guys so clearly above everyone else they made all 5 coaches lists)

Its not neccessary the best players but guys who are in the top 2 of their position

Guys that miss out for me on that
All scottish hookers
Gray
Richie, Curry, all 8s bar Faletua
Z Fagerson , Francis, Sinkler
Henderson
Both vinipolos
All irish wings, english and scottish wings
All centres bar Henshaw
Sexton I think wont make Townsend list

I think Tipuric might well be on that list of 20

whatisthejava wrote:Supposedly the 4 coaches came up with their own 36 and when combined 20-22 names were the same accross the board

This would suggest me that there is still alot of disagreement

as i reckon the 20 prob looked like this

Sutherland, Wyn
Owens
Furlong
Itoje, AWJ, Ryan
Watson, Faletua, Beine

Russel, Bigger Zammit, Hogg, Adams, Farrell, Price , Henshaw

(Thats actually really hard to try and pick guys so clearly above everyone else they made all 5 coaches lists)

Its not neccessary the best players but guys who are in the top 2 of their position

Guys that miss out for me on that
All scottish hookers
Gray
Richie, Curry, all 8s bar Faletua
Z Fagerson , Francis, Sinkler
Henderson
Both vinipolos
All irish wings, english and scottish wings
All centres bar Henshaw
Sexton I think wont make Townsend list

I am not so sure Sutherland would be on everyones list. There is 0.001% chance that Price is on all 5 coaches list ahead of Murray. It is a pretty fruitless task but this teleconference I am in is dull as dishwater.

Wyn
Owens
Furlong, Sinckler (coaches seem to really like him)
Itoje, AWJ,
Bierne
Watson, Curry
Faletau
Murray
Sexton, Bigger
Farrell
Henshaw, Harris obviously , North
Hogg, Watson, Williams, Zammit

Big D wrote:
I am not so sure Sutherland would be on everyones list. There is 0.001% chance that Price is on all 5 coaches list ahead of Murray. It is a pretty fruitless task but this teleconference I am in is dull as dishwater.

Wyn
Owens
Furlong, Sinckler (coaches seem to really like him)
Itoje, AWJ,
Bierne
Watson, Curry
Faletau
Murray
Sexton, Bigger
Farrell
Henshaw, Harris obviously , North
Hogg, Watson, Williams, Zammit

I would agree, I think that Mako / Sutherland will have a split vote.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Owens joined by Jamie George at hooker

Wyn
Owens, George
Furlong
Itoje, AWJ, Ryan
Bierne, Curry
Watson, Tipuric (or I can see 1 of either of them only on the list)
Faletau

Murray
Biggar, Russell
Henshaw, North
Hogg, Watson, Williams, Zammit

Big D wrote:There is 0.001% chance that Price is on all 5 coaches list

Good shout for Murray but still think Price made all lists after a relative ok 6N bar one box kick

stevedog1980 wrote:Mako

Not convinced he is on most lists as he really didnt do anything in the 6N

whatisthejava wrote:

Big D wrote:There is 0.001% chance that Price is on all 5 coaches list

Good shout for Murray but still think Price made all lists after a relative ok 6N bar one box kick.

Jenkins and MacBride will almost certainly have had Irish and Welsh 9s in there.

Also keep in mind Gatland has been on Lions tours partially decided by solid game management and not doing anything daft (ROG* v SA, SBW for NZ). The 2 box kicks, one which was only partially his fault will stand out to coaches rightly or wrongly as they happened at the end of close games so they stand out.

Not saying he won't or doesn't deserve to tour but I'd be shocked if he was one of the 20-22 players they all agreed on.

*Although I do think SA would have won game 3 if need be.

I would be stunned if all of them were opting for Price. Not that he shouldn’t necessarily go, but there were definitely more than a couple of daft moments from him. I think his general reputation may make those seem a bit more of a concern, but generally he was very good.