Team for Tonga

[Digby]

It's a pretty meaningless game, this Tonga side won't do much. So we've got an average midfield that will come out looking great. I would rather have seen Atkinson play 12 and Manu at 13.

Why?

Because I think Manu is better at 13, I don't think Slade offers that much, and if Smith is ever going to play 10 Farrell will certainly play 12. So if Farrell is going to play 10, why not try something new at 12?

The rare instance of Atkinson being described as new

[Spiffy]

Smith is either fit enough to play a game of international rugby or he's not.
If he is fully fit he should be starting.
If he's not he should not be on the bench.

[Mikey Brown]

Smith is either fit enough to play a game of international rugby or he's not.
If he is fully fit he should be starting.
If he's not he should not be on the bench.

Yeah I'm a bit worried about this too, but who needs 3 fly-halves in a squad eh? Not when you've got to make space for 3 spare number 8s. Nevermind that one of those 10s is generally the starting 12.

[Stom]

Smith is either fit enough to play a game of international rugby or he's not.
If he is fully fit he should be starting.
If he's not he should not be on the bench.

If he’s not been training all week, he may not be 100% on all the calls and set plays. So starting him on the bench seems sensible.

[Puja]

Smith is either fit enough to play a game of international rugby or he's not.
If he is fully fit he should be starting.
If he's not he should not be on the bench.

Normally, I'd agree, but this isn't going to be a touch and go test where not having 8 fully firing replacements is going to bite us. Even if Farrell goes down injured in the first minute, Smith can still only play 60 minutes as we've got Furbank and Slade who can play 10 well enough to cope with the last 20 minutes of Tonga.

If he's not 100% match-fit, I would still want him on the bench, as he'll likely be coming on in a second half where the game will've devolved into an opposed training session and it will help him get fully ready for next week.

Puja

[Spiffy]

Smith is either fit enough to play a game of international rugby or he's not.
If he is fully fit he should be starting.
If he's not he should not be on the bench.

Normally, I'd agree, but this isn't going to be a touch and go test where not having 8 fully firing replacements is going to bite us. Even if Farrell goes down injured in the first minute, Smith can still only play 60 minutes as we've got Furbank and Slade who can play 10 well enough to cope with the last 20 minutes of Tonga.

If he's not 100% match-fit, I would still want him on the bench, as he'll likely be coming on in a second half where the game will've devolved into an opposed training session and it will help him get fully ready for next week.

Puja

Fair enough. But I was talking about actual physical fitness, not match time, as he has been carrying an injury.

[jngf]

Another England campaign has brought more inevitably contentious selection decisions to chew over. As the two-year countdown to the 2023 World Cup begins, here is the thinking behind three big calls.
Tom Curry’s move is all about chemistry… and potential

A headline selection, which may stir confusion and consternation, is Tom Curry’s return to start at the base of England’s scrum for the first time in 18 months.

The 23-year-old seemed to be a stop-gap experiment there after Billy Vunipola fractured his arm last January. However, he wears eight against Tonga despite Vunipola’s omission. Callum Chick, Alex Dombrandt and Sam Simmonds were selected in training squads, but they must wait.

Critics will feel this is a regressive option, especially if they dwell on Curry’s struggles during a 24-17 loss to France. Test matches can stick in the mind because they are relatively rare. Curry settled into the new position quickly and performed well over England’s three victories against Scotland, Ireland and Wales before the 2020 Six Nations was halted due to COVID-19.

A back-row combination of Courtney Lawes, Sam Underhill and Curry gives England a cohesive lineout operation with a world-class jumper to complement the locks. Defensively, there can be few more imposing trios on the planet.

Attacking evolution must be a theme of this month, and Eddie Jones has challenged Curry to improve that area of his game in the same manner that Richie McCaw did towards the end of his storied New Zealand career. Another All Black, Ardie Savea, set the standard for explosive carrying against Wales last weekend.

To his credit, Curry has shown remarkable adaptability so far, excelling at both openside and blindside flanker. Might number eight even end up as his best position?

He is already a rounded attacker. On club duty with Sale Sharks, he is a chief distributor away from the tail of mauls – one of the underappreciated responsibilities that Billy Vunipola fulfilled for England. Curry cuts incisive angles in midfield and has the athleticism to pose problems out wide. Expect the new system of Martin Gleeson to present him with running opportunities in the 15-metre channels.

As Telegraph Sport hinted after the British and Irish Lions tour, shifting Curry to eight is one way of retaining the chemistry shared by him and Underhill, one of England’s most valuable individuals. Curry’s discipline lapsed on the Lions tour at openside flanker. Underhill’s menace always seems slightly more controlled from number seven, and his muscular carrying has been a bright spot for Bath.

Theoretically, the link play and intuition of Dombrandt gives England a higher ceiling. That said, careful thought must be given to how to integrate him at Test level. The hope is that a confidence-boosting cameo from the bench, as part of a dominant pack eking out momentum so Dombrandt can hunt the shoulders of fellow replacement Marcus Smith, can be the start of something special.
Ellis Genge starter rather than super sub – and a lineout weapon

This call is not particularly curious, although Joe Marler was probably the most influential player over the course of the 2020-21 Premiership season. Just about every week, he ensured the Harlequins scrum bullied their opponents. Two mammoth performances in the semi-final and final capped his remarkable campaign.

England are a stronger squad for Marler being back in the fold. That said, Ellis Genge could not have begun this season with a more convincing demonstration of his leadership and prowess with Leicester Tigers. He has captained his club to the top of the league table without compromising on snarl and set-piece prowess.

In the context of Jones targeting the lineout as an attacking platform, Genge can be an important hole-puncher. He is regularly launched in midfield by Leicester



Tonga were sliced and diced by Scotland last weekend but should be more robust than Canada were in July. Still, the dynamic carrying of Genge helps to balance a pack shorn of Billy Vunipola.

Genge’s threat, perhaps in harness with a charging Manu Tuilagi, will fix plenty of defenders. If either one of them receive a pass, England should puncture the gain-line and generate quick ruck ball. If they are used as decoys, space should open up elsewhere for Owen Farrell and Henry Slade to feed the speed.

This would represent a 12th start for Genge on the occasion of his 31st England cap. He has been patient. Few would dispute that he has earned it, and a central role awaits as one of three vice-captains alongside Curry and Lawes.
An experienced midfield to help others settle

Again, Jones will be accused of conservatism over the make-up of his backline. From scrum-half to outside centre, this is just about as experienced a combination as the Australian could possibly field. Like the pack, though, the backline exhibits his desire for balance.

A midfield of Owen Farrell, Manu Tuilagi and Henry Slade started wins over Ireland and Australia in 2019, which remain two of the most complete performances under Jones. They were all on the pitch – admittedly with George Ford – for some sparkling attack against Wales in the 2020 Six Nations as well.

The left foot of Slade offers kicking variety under the 50-22 law and Tuilagi’s ballast ensures that England should not often become stodgy in phase-play. If conditions are sympathetic at Twickenham on Saturday, a clunky and kick-heavy display against Tonga will be inexcusable. Intensity and intent are vital.

In the back three, Jonny May’s know-how off-sets the inexperience of two much fresher faces. He should help Freddie Steward and Adam Radwan with the nuances of positioning. The former is exceptional under the high ball, which will hopefully help England achieve their aim of becoming a more dangerous team on the counter.

Radwan will be encouraged to hunt the ball and use his mesmerising footwork all over the field. Again, May can show the way in this regard. Learning about Steward and Radwan, whether they are ready for the Wallabies and whether they are capable of enhancing England on the road to 2023, must be a priority. Unearthing a backline gem feels important. Max Malins and Raffi Quirke should get opportunities later this month.

Speaking of potentially transformative players, Marcus Smith’s place on the bench has been encouraged by the niggle he was carrying at the start of this week. A soft launch for his autumn will underwhelm England supporters heading for Twickenham.

But Jones has said that he wants the home crowd to be captivated throughout the game. Giving at least half an hour to Smith would be a good way to ward off Mexican waves.

Is Charlie Morgan on Jones’ payroll?

[Danno]

It's a bit more nuanced than Curry at 8 bad

[Scrumhead]

It’s a sympathetic view, but also not inaccurate.

We’ve also been talking about how this game is approached all week and I’d say there were more of us leaning towards it being used as a tune-up for big games against Australia and SA, which is now exactly what it looks like.

I’d much preferred to have seen Dombrandt and Smith start, but beyond that, I’m not overly surprised or disappointed. Steward and Radwan at least have the opportunity to build upon their performances in the summer.

[Raggs]

If Smith is fit, but hasn't been able to train that much, it would be very harsh to throw him in starting and expect anything. Let him come on and build his confidence.

As for Curry at 8, the only unique interactions the 8 has is at the back of the scrum. He can control the ball at the base, he can pass well, he's a determined carrier, but how often these days do we even see a carry from the base anyway.

[Oakboy]

It’s a sympathetic view, but also not inaccurate.

We’ve also been talking about how this game is approached all week and I’d say there were more of us leaning towards it being used as a tune-up for big games against Australia and SA, which is now exactly what it looks like.

I’d much preferred to have seen Dombrandt and Smith start, but beyond that, I’m not overly surprised or disappointed. Steward and Radwan at least have the opportunity to build upon their performances in the summer.

Assuming everyone is fit, will there be any changes for the next match, though? Smith and Dombrandt certainly won't be starting. Possibly a change or two on the bench at best (depending on Mitchell and Furbank performing?), I'd guess. That leaves us with no radical change to playing style.

Being cynical: Youngs or Farrell to hoof it up in the air with a few crash-ball passes to Tuilagi to make sure he gets injured again!!!

Maybe, the new coaching crew will provide some surprises. One must have hope, I suppose.

[Scrumhead]

Well the main thrust of articles in the build up to the game seemed to suggest Smith and Farrell at 10 and 12, so I wouldn’t totally rule that out against the Aussies.

[Mikey Brown]

Well the main thrust of articles in the build up to the game seemed to suggest Smith and Farrell at 10 and 12, so I wouldn’t totally rule that out against the Aussies.

It’s just hard to see Smith being able to do enough in a substitute role again Tonga to demand both the starting spot and a reshuffle. Also largely depends on how the centres go I guess, but it feels like we’re reverting back to the axis of evil at halfback for this series.

[loudnconfident]

Charlie Morgan: "To his credit, Curry has shown remarkable adaptability so far, excelling at both openside and blindside flanker. Might number eight even end up as his best position?"

Maybe. But is an international game the place to find out? Why does Eddie keep using players out of position? (c.f. Daly...)

[francoisfou]

Maybe Eddie needs another look at Farrell to see what he can offer at Test level. Evidently, with 99 caps, he still needs to be convinced the Iceman is up to the task.

[badback]

I can just about get my mind around the selection if he's trying to build for Tonga. But still I find it...unexciting.

Also, even if Smith comes on presumably Farrell will shuffle to inside centre. And then Smith will be trying to prove he's a better fly half while operating with a worse set of centers.

[Which Tyler]

Also, even if Smith comes on presumably Farrell will shuffle to inside centre. And then Smith will be trying to prove he's a better fly half while operating with a worse set of centers.

I'm sure George Ford will be overflowing with sympathy

[morepork]

How many promising international careers have been stymied by this undropable Farrell policy?

[Danno]

How many promising international careers have been stymied by this undropable Farrell policy?

We need to tally it up once he's either dropped or retired

...which might be after 2027 because hes a resilient bastard.

[jngf]

If Smith is fit, but hasn't been able to train that much, it would be very harsh to throw him in starting and expect anything. Let him come on and build his confidence.

As for Curry at 8, the only unique interactions the 8 has is at the back of the scrum. He can control the ball at the base, he can pass well, he's a determined carrier, but how often these days do we even see a carry from the base anyway.

A no.8 needs to be a powerful ball carrier who can breach the gain line, whilst Curry runs hard into contact more often than not he gets stopped dead at the gain line, failing to make any holes. Charle Morgan’s argument that because a player can move from 7 to 6 successfully provides hope they can make the move to 8 in turn appears based on little beyond wishful thinking imo. Wainwright carried very well for Wales last Saturday (appreciating it didn’t go Wales’ way) and I’ve never seen Curry carry to anything like that capability In all reality.

[badback]

Also, even if Smith comes on presumably Farrell will shuffle to inside centre. And then Smith will be trying to prove he's a better fly half while operating with a worse set of centers.

I'm sure George Ford will be overflowing with sympathy

Haha yes!

[p/d]

Selection as expected, and not getting hung up on it.
Curry at 8 is a typical selection when a player has to start (as he should). A victim of his own success, if you will. Farrell at 12 appears to be the same, though for different reasons.

Even though the opposition tomorrow are pants, in international terms, it is the manner in which we play not who is playing. Would Ewels really be on the bench if it was a WC semi whilst BV ran out for Sarries.

Let’s just hope we see a move away from our RL approach of the last 6n, if not it won’t matter a jot what number is on a player’s shirt

[Stom]

Well the main thrust of articles in the build up to the game seemed to suggest Smith and Farrell at 10 and 12, so I wouldn’t totally rule that out against the Aussies.

It’s just hard to see Smith being able to do enough in a substitute role again Tonga to demand both the starting spot and a reshuffle. Also largely depends on how the centres go I guess, but it feels like we’re reverting back to the axis of evil at halfback for this series.

Maybe he doesn’t need to? Maybe the only reason he’s on the bench is to introduce him slowly after he missed some of the team training.

I don’t see the problem here at all. Although if we end up with SFS … well that’s not too clever

[Mikey Brown]

Well the main thrust of articles in the build up to the game seemed to suggest Smith and Farrell at 10 and 12, so I wouldn’t totally rule that out against the Aussies.

It’s just hard to see Smith being able to do enough in a substitute role again Tonga to demand both the starting spot and a reshuffle. Also largely depends on how the centres go I guess, but it feels like we’re reverting back to the axis of evil at halfback for this series.

Maybe he doesn’t need to? Maybe the only reason he’s on the bench is to introduce him slowly after he missed some of the team training.

I don’t see the problem here at all. Although if we end up with SFS … well that’s not too clever

Doesn’t need to what? Show enough to displace captain Faz (or in reality 40 cap Slade)? I’m not suggesting it’s the end of the world for his development if he is benching during this series, but it’s unfortunate timing to get an injury when he seemed pencilled in to start.

Even Eddie can surely only go so long before bringing Ford back in and that may be opportunity gone for Smith making a statement as a front line flyhalf.

Given Tuilagi is Tuilagi a SFS midfield doesn’t sound unlikely at all at some point.

[Puja]

It’s just hard to see Smith being able to do enough in a substitute role again Tonga to demand both the starting spot and a reshuffle. Also largely depends on how the centres go I guess, but it feels like we’re reverting back to the axis of evil at halfback for this series.

Maybe he doesn’t need to? Maybe the only reason he’s on the bench is to introduce him slowly after he missed some of the team training.

I don’t see the problem here at all. Although if we end up with SFS … well that’s not too clever

Doesn’t need to what? Show enough to displace captain Faz (or in reality 40 cap Slade)? I’m not suggesting it’s the end of the world for his development if he is benching during this series, but it’s unfortunate timing to get an injury when he seemed pencilled in to start.

I don't think he specifically needs to shine in a sub cameo against Tonga to get the 10 shirt for the next match. If Eddie fancies him as a player, it won't be based on anything as prosaic as "recent form", he'll just be back in and Slade will be out, the same way that any temporarily injured first team player would reclaim their place without having to "demand" it back from their substitute.

Puja