6 Nations Squad 2022

[ckeyn]

Eddie J's been quoted as saying on BBC 5 Live Smith needs Faz next to him '[running] the game'. Ford and Faz not competing for the same spot then. His philosophy also seems to favour multi-positionality; so squad size has probably counted against Ford.

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

[Mellsblue]

I for one disagree, but even I can't stomach another conversation about the trade-off between Farrell being a 10 that can't pass or run and a 12 who can't run or pass.

I'm sure we'll see him hopping back and forth between the two, leaving everybody happy.

Fixed that properly did you.

[Oakboy]

Mellsblue said above that Jones says Ford has things to improve on. I don't know if that's a direct quote or not, but it kind of goes against the idea he's just so good we don't need to even play him anymore (which certainly doesn't sound like a very Jones thing in the first place).

I'm slightly baffled by your assertion that we've seen Ford's maximum ability, Oakboy. Maybe the relentless actually was down to Ford and Jones has dropped him because he's not interested in that anymore, but I'm not convinced. I don't think there's anybody in the world better at bringing attackers forward on to the ball and timing a pass, but it seemingly hasn't been the focus of our game for most of the time Ford has been at 10. If that was Ford going against the plan I'd be amazed that he lasted as long as he did.

I'm raising your slightly to a completely.

Well, choose. You can have Ford at FH or Jones as head coach, it seems, but not both.

[Banquo]

I for one disagree, but even I can't stomach another conversation about the trade-off between Farrell being a 10 that can't pass or a 12 who can't run.

I'm sure we'll see him hopping back and forth between the two, leaving everybody happy.

What, you think Faz is a better 12 than 10? If he can't pass- then he's not much use as a second distributor at 12, and his defending at 12 is much more of a liability than at 10.

Though Eddie is putting him at 12 outside Smith by the sound of it.

[Banquo]

Mellsblue said above that Jones says Ford has things to improve on. I don't know if that's a direct quote or not, but it kind of goes against the idea he's just so good we don't need to even play him anymore (which certainly doesn't sound like a very Jones thing in the first place).

I'm slightly baffled by your assertion that we've seen Ford's maximum ability, Oakboy. Maybe the relentless actually was down to Ford and Jones has dropped him because he's not interested in that anymore, but I'm not convinced. I don't think there's anybody in the world better at bringing attackers forward on to the ball and timing a pass, but it seemingly hasn't been the focus of our game for most of the time Ford has been at 10. If that was Ford going against the plan I'd be amazed that he lasted as long as he did.

I'm raising your slightly to a completely.

Well, choose. You can have Ford at FH or Jones as head coach, it seems, but not both.

Its not my choice, is it.

[Mikey Brown]

I for one disagree, but even I can't stomach another conversation about the trade-off between Farrell being a 10 that can't pass or a 12 who can't run.

I'm sure we'll see him hopping back and forth between the two, leaving everybody happy.

What, you think Faz is a better 12 than 10? Though Eddie is putting him at 12 outside Smith by the sound of it.

Well I think it’s easier to circumvent his weaknesses at 12 than 10, given he’s obviously needed somewhere to provide those intangible things that he provides.

But maybe that view is more about being frustrated not to see Ford (or Smith) on the field if he is at 10. It’s certainly not easy to pick a suitable 13 alongside him in the centre with Tuilagi unavailable.

Overall I’d say I’ve seen him have more good games at 12 than 10 by a long way.

[p/d]

Eddie J's been quoted as saying on BBC 5 Live Smith needs Faz next to him '[running] the game'. Ford and Faz not competing for the same spot then. His philosophy also seems to favour multi-positionality; so squad size has probably counted against Ford.

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

Every brilliant 10 in the history of the game has been accompanied by a stable 12," Jones said.

"That's the combination I think we need to have, and Owen brings that at 12."

A stable 12.

[p/d]

Ford is a spent force unless injuries force Jones’ hand

[FKAS]

Ford is a spent force unless injuries force Jones’ hand

Spent force that has two of four player of the month trophies for this season sat on his mantelpiece.

If Farrell is at 12 and Marchant is at 13 then that could work. Ford/Farrell/Joseph was a midfield with which England had a lot of success. Add in Steward coming from deep and that has a similar feel to the backline that played most of the game Vs SA.

[Oakboy]

Eddie J's been quoted as saying on BBC 5 Live Smith needs Faz next to him '[running] the game'. Ford and Faz not competing for the same spot then. His philosophy also seems to favour multi-positionality; so squad size has probably counted against Ford.

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

Every brilliant 10 in the history of the game has been accompanied by a stable 12," Jones said.

"That's the combination I think we need to have, and Owen brings that at 12."

A stable 12.

Belongs in a stable, you mean?

[Oakboy]

Why would Jones sit and watch a 10/12/13 combo of Smith, Slade and Marchant work so well in the AIs and then not consider it for the 6N? That's what I don't understand. When, deprived of Farrell by injury, the unit improves it apparently means zilch. Even if Farrell has something mysteriously intangible that so many can't see when was the last time he really contributed? It was certainly before Saracens' relegation. Yet, after a club game and a bit of training, he will again be indispensable apparently.

[Banquo]

I for one disagree, but even I can't stomach another conversation about the trade-off between Farrell being a 10 that can't pass or a 12 who can't run.

I'm sure we'll see him hopping back and forth between the two, leaving everybody happy.

What, you think Faz is a better 12 than 10? Though Eddie is putting him at 12 outside Smith by the sound of it.

Well I think it’s easier to circumvent his weaknesses at 12 than 10, given he’s obviously needed somewhere to provide those intangible things that he provides.

But maybe that view is more about being frustrated not to see Ford (or Smith) on the field if he is at 10. It’s certainly not easy to pick a suitable 13 alongside him in the centre with Tuilagi unavailable.

Overall I’d say I’ve seen him have more good games at 12 than 10 by a long way.

We will have to disagree then, and definitely so at club level where he is a good 10 for Sarries tbh. I couldn't say I've seen him have what I'd call a 'good game' at 12 tbh, but a good game for him is a low bar at 12- I guess you may be saying he's less 'harmful' at 12...plus Intangibles

[Banquo]

Ford is a spent force unless injuries force Jones’ hand

Spent force that has two of four player of the month trophies for this season sat on his mantelpiece.

If Farrell is at 12 and Marchant is at 13 then that could work. Ford/Farrell/Joseph was a midfield with which England had a lot of success. Add in Steward coming from deep and that has a similar feel to the backline that played most of the game Vs SA.

I think p/d means Jones aint picking him unless he has to.

No idea why folks like Faz at 12; the success of a midfield including Ford and Joseph is down to those two imo, both fine attacking talents.

[Oakboy]

We will have to disagree then, and definitely so at club level where he is a good 10 for Sarries tbh. I couldn't say I've seen him have what I'd call a 'good game' at 12 tbh, but a good game for him is a low bar at 12.

Lozowski has had no mentions. I find that surprising. Maybe he needs a new club.

[Banquo]

We will have to disagree then, and definitely so at club level where he is a good 10 for Sarries tbh. I couldn't say I've seen him have what I'd call a 'good game' at 12 tbh, but a good game for him is a low bar at 12.

Lozowski has had no mentions. I find that surprising. Maybe he needs a new club.

He's tried that (twice) already . I like him, but he has suffered from being versatile and a small run of poor form a few years ago- imo he (should be a) very good 12. Reasonably physical, quick, nice hands, good boot- but you have to play there for a while to esp get the passing in traffic right and defence spot on.

[Oakboy]

No idea why folks like Faz at 12; the success of a midfield including Ford and Joseph is down to those two imo, both fine attacking talents.

Ford and Joseph are out of Jones's thinking yet Farrell remains in it - AT 12!! We are doomed, doomed!

Seriously, a technical question. How will Farrell and Smith get on defensively (presumably with Slade at 13)?

[Spiffy]

Eddie J's been quoted as saying on BBC 5 Live Smith needs Faz next to him '[running] the game'. Ford and Faz not competing for the same spot then. His philosophy also seems to favour multi-positionality; so squad size has probably counted against Ford.

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

That kind of statement by Jones really makes him look like a witless tit with little appreciation of rugby ability.
Smith has been running games better than anyone else for the past couple of seasons. Not only running them,but winning them with crucial interventions at key moments.
In comparing Smith with Farrell I would rate Smith ahead in practically every category (e.g. running, passing, tactical kicking, speed, vision, defence etc..) He is probably as good a place kicker now too, if not better.
Ford is well ahead of Faz in multiple categories too.
The one thing neither Smith or Ford needs is a lumbering makeshift 12 beside him to "run" the game for him.
England's 6N opponents will be very happy to see Farrell in the lineup.

[Mellsblue]

Why would Jones sit and watch a 10/12/13 combo of Smith, Slade and Marchant work so well in the AIs

Not that I’m averse to the idea but let’s not get too excited. It was 70mins against a defence set up for a completely different threat.

[p/d]

Ford is a spent force unless injuries force Jones’ hand

Spent force that has two of four player of the month trophies for this season sat on his mantelpiece.

If Farrell is at 12 and Marchant is at 13 then that could work. Ford/Farrell/Joseph was a midfield with which England had a lot of success. Add in Steward coming from deep and that has a similar feel to the backline that played most of the game Vs SA.

I think p/d means Jones aint picking him unless he has to.
.

Indeedy

[FKAS]

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

The two seasons where he kept a dire Tigers season in the league finishing one of those seasons as the top points scorer in the league?

It seems Eddie has decided to have a work experience lad in the squad as opposed to two quality flyhalfs. Let's hope he doesn't live to regret that.

[Banquo]

Relatedly, can we point to enough evidence of Ford dictating on the back-foot?

The two seasons where he kept a dire Tigers season in the league finishing one of those seasons as the top points scorer in the league?

It seems Eddie has decided to have a work experience lad in the squad as opposed to two quality flyhalfs. Let's hope he doesn't live to regret that.

and the instances of 10's dictating on the back foot are pretty uncommon; even Wilkinson at his best (and his game was pretty well suited to it, if anyone's was/is) struggled when the pack did.

[Oakboy]

The one thing neither Smith or Ford needs is a lumbering makeshift 12 beside him to "run" the game for him.
England's 6N opponents will be very happy to see Farrell in the lineup.

Exactly!!! We have seen Cipriani have a brief go, stymied by Farrell at 12. Now, we have seen Ford discarded having rarely run things without Farrell at 12.

I think Jones is so lucky that Smith has arrived. Unfortunately, I think he is setting out to hamper the lad's natural creativity. I'd not be at all surprised if Farrell starts at 10 after the first few games in the 6N.

[Banquo]

The one thing neither Smith or Ford needs is a lumbering makeshift 12 beside him to "run" the game for him.
England's 6N opponents will be very happy to see Farrell in the lineup.

Exactly!!! We have seen Cipriani have a brief go, stymied by Farrell at 12. Now, we have seen Ford discarded having rarely run things without Farrell at 12.

I think Jones is so lucky that Smith has arrived. Unfortunately, I think he is setting out to hamper the lad's natural creativity. I'd not be at all surprised if Farrell starts at 10 after the first few games in the 6N.

Cips stymies himself normally, but I do have sympathy.

I wouldn't be surprised if Faz plays most 6N games @10 tbh.

[Magic_sponge]

What, you think Faz is a better 12 than 10? Though Eddie is putting him at 12 outside Smith by the sound of it.

Well I think it’s easier to circumvent his weaknesses at 12 than 10, given he’s obviously needed somewhere to provide those intangible things that he provides.

But maybe that view is more about being frustrated not to see Ford (or Smith) on the field if he is at 10. It’s certainly not easy to pick a suitable 13 alongside him in the centre with Tuilagi unavailable.

Overall I’d say I’ve seen him have more good games at 12 than 10 by a long way.

We will have to disagree then, and definitely so at club level where he is a good 10 for Sarries tbh. I couldn't say I've seen him have what I'd call a 'good game' at 12 tbh, but a good game for him is a low bar at 12- I guess you may be saying he's less 'harmful' at 12...plus Intangibles

I guess I 'prefer' him at 12 (strictly when compared to him being at 10 only) because I don't see as many top 12s missing out on a place at his inclusion. If he's at 10 it would be at the expense of both ford and Smith, so a greater 'harm'!

A ringing endorsement!

[Mikey Brown]

What, you think Faz is a better 12 than 10? Though Eddie is putting him at 12 outside Smith by the sound of it.

Well I think it’s easier to circumvent his weaknesses at 12 than 10, given he’s obviously needed somewhere to provide those intangible things that he provides.

But maybe that view is more about being frustrated not to see Ford (or Smith) on the field if he is at 10. It’s certainly not easy to pick a suitable 13 alongside him in the centre with Tuilagi unavailable.

Overall I’d say I’ve seen him have more good games at 12 than 10 by a long way.

We will have to disagree then, and definitely so at club level where he is a good 10 for Sarries tbh. I couldn't say I've seen him have what I'd call a 'good game' at 12 tbh, but a good game for him is a low bar at 12- I guess you may be saying he's less 'harmful' at 12...plus Intangibles

Well you can probably tell I'm caught in two minds about it, but on the whole I think he does less harm at 12. He compromises one fewer player outside of him I guess.

He has to be somewhere, rightly or wrongly, and that's just the way it is until he retires I imagine. It's odd watching the media turn on him as though this has been a sudden downturn for him. I think he's actually improved in a lot of ways but suddenly people started noticing some of his more obvious flaws. We might actually be headed towards some sort of weird, parallel universe where he is actually underrated? I'm mostly taking the piss when I talk about "intangibles" but I do think there's something to it.

Who would you pick as a centre pairing? No Dingwall I'm afraid, though Scotland haven't named him in their squad you'll be glad to know.

Biggest question for me in a way is whether Slade's performance vs SA was an aberration or the big leap forward for him that it looked like. He's captained Exeter a few times recently, and it's made me curious about what kind of communicator he is on the pitch, as I've always had this feeling he's relatively quiet? Farrell's voice does seem to hold a lot of sway with players that play alongside him, regardless of how good he is at passing left to right. Can Slade do that? I'd wondered if that was a natural part of the move away from fly-half, and the subsequent resistance to becoming the top class 12 we were all hoping for. It feels like he's often a few seconds ahead of himself in the play, thinking about the miracle break/pass he's going to throw and then drops the easy pass that comes his way.