RugbyRebels

Cheers 5 Pointer Healthy debate not @rse kissing whats need when serious business of England rugby being debated.
Yoda hasn't failed but the current state of the team is a consequence of his previous errors as far as I'm concerned - experimenting with a 9 because he's farked around Robson Spencer and Mitchell to an extent. I'm no fan of Randall as solution Quirke or Mitchell better players for me.

12 - who replaces/competes with Tuilagi give up so lets convert Slade hmm why haven't Devoto or Atkinson been given more than about 100 mins between them?

Back 3 - don't pick any winger other than My or Nowell Watson absence excepted and instead rely on turnstile EfD or shoehorn Malins and to lesser extent Marchant into the team. Radwan scoring 5? tries v Canada all well and good but why not select him in Rome?? Thorley tore it up in 2020 but Yoda didn't pick him and I'll bet 6p to a pile of Eddie bullshit that Thorley lost confidence in no small part due to that dicking around.

There's a long list of blokes whom Yoda has dicked around failed to put his faith in whilst EfD Youngs Ewels Faz were picked despite being mediocre and often kept players performing better out

Yes he's had injuries to cope with but his failures of selection in 2020 and 2021 mean everything is now forced.

Portcullis Irish wrote:So Yoda has kept 4 locks + Chessum?

Makes me think a 6/2 bench incoming with Ewels Chessum & Barbeary/Simmonds Randall & Daly Given the paucity of a cutting edge a fresh pack to stifle Ireland may be the best available option to win the game but frankly........its meh
Does Yoda have faith in Slade/Malins to cover 10 for 70+ mins if Smith gets steamrolled by Aki first up??

What an indictment of Yoda's player development skills since 2019 it all is.

If we lose these last 2 games will the RFU have the gonads to ditch tinkerman ?

I won't mention your last sentence on the grounds that I don't want to get my hopes up.

As regards the bench, I just can't entertain not having Ford there from the players retained. If it is 6:2, I think we'll see Randall and Ford - risky as that is. I'm probably wrong (hardly unknown!!) but I think the 6:2 bench was dismissed with Furbank's departure, the only viable 10/12/15 theoretically.

The extra forwards retained may indicate more doubts than we hope about Curry and Dombrandt. My only other thought is that we might be closer to Ewels not being in the 23.

Oakboy wrote:I don't want to get my hopes up.

My only other thought is that we might be closer to Ewels not being in the 23.

These 2 sentences seem to be self-contradictory...

Portcullis Irish wrote:Cheers 5 Pointer Healthy debate not @rse kissing whats need when serious business of England rugby being debated.
Yoda hasn't failed but the current state of the team is a consequence of his previous errors as far as I'm concerned - experimenting with a 9 because he's farked around Robson Spencer and Mitchell to an extent. I'm no fan of Randall as solution Quirke or Mitchell better players for me.

12 - who replaces/competes with Tuilagi give up so lets convert Slade hmm why haven't Devoto or Atkinson been given more than about 100 mins between them?

Back 3 - don't pick any winger other than My or Nowell Watson absence excepted and instead rely on turnstile EfD or shoehorn Malins and to lesser extent Marchant into the team. Radwan scoring 5? tries v Canada all well and good but why not select him in Rome?? Thorley tore it up in 2020 but Yoda didn't pick him and I'll bet 6p to a pile of Eddie bullshit that Thorley lost confidence in no small part due to that dicking around.

There's a long list of blokes whom Yoda has dicked around failed to put his faith in whilst EfD Youngs Ewels Faz were picked despite being mediocre and often kept players performing better out

Yes he's had injuries to cope with but his failures of selection in 2020 and 2021 mean everything is now forced.

EfD is a turnstile at 13, but a bloody good winger.
Atkinson is a plodder now and Devoto never fit.

Totally agree on the rest. All that said, the forwards need to also get a lot better- carrying effectively/with purpose would be a start, rather than just for the sake of it.

Sorry just don't rate master of none EfD but if he or another back 3 player is selected on the wing then the one proper winger needs to be a finisher with pace to burn
12 is the glaring deficit in Yoda's record & his failure to find an alternative plagues and stymies the attack. I fear Saturday will be a feast day for Beirne VDF et al as they turnover Slade Steward whoever takes short ball off Smith and runs into Farrells iron jacket defence

Oakboy wrote:

Portcullis Irish wrote:So Yoda has kept 4 locks + Chessum?

Makes me think a 6/2 bench incoming with Ewels Chessum & Barbeary/Simmonds Randall & Daly Given the paucity of a cutting edge a fresh pack to stifle Ireland may be the best available option to win the game but frankly........its meh
Does Yoda have faith in Slade/Malins to cover 10 for 70+ mins if Smith gets steamrolled by Aki first up??

What an indictment of Yoda's player development skills since 2019 it all is.

If we lose these last 2 games will the RFU have the gonads to ditch tinkerman ?

I won't mention your last sentence on the grounds that I don't want to get my hopes up.

As regards the bench, I just can't entertain not having Ford there from the players retained. If it is 6:2, I think we'll see Randall and Ford - risky as that is. I'm probably wrong (hardly unknown!!) but I think the 6:2 bench was dismissed with Furbank's departure, the only viable 10/12/15 theoretically.

The extra forwards retained may indicate more doubts than we hope about Curry and Dombrandt. My only other thought is that we might be closer to Ewels not being in the 23.

Ford and Randall hmm wouldn surely Nowell Malins & EfD mean make the 15

Banquo wrote:

Portcullis Irish wrote:Cheers 5 Pointer Healthy debate not @rse kissing whats need when serious business of England rugby being debated.
Yoda hasn't failed but the current state of the team is a consequence of his previous errors as far as I'm concerned - experimenting with a 9 because he's farked around Robson Spencer and Mitchell to an extent. I'm no fan of Randall as solution Quirke or Mitchell better players for me.

12 - who replaces/competes with Tuilagi give up so lets convert Slade hmm why haven't Devoto or Atkinson been given more than about 100 mins between them?

Back 3 - don't pick any winger other than My or Nowell Watson absence excepted and instead rely on turnstile EfD or shoehorn Malins and to lesser extent Marchant into the team. Radwan scoring 5? tries v Canada all well and good but why not select him in Rome?? Thorley tore it up in 2020 but Yoda didn't pick him and I'll bet 6p to a pile of Eddie bullshit that Thorley lost confidence in no small part due to that dicking around.

There's a long list of blokes whom Yoda has dicked around failed to put his faith in whilst EfD Youngs Ewels Faz were picked despite being mediocre and often kept players performing better out

Yes he's had injuries to cope with but his failures of selection in 2020 and 2021 mean everything is now forced.

EfD is a turnstile at 13, but a bloody good winger.
Atkinson is a plodder now and Devoto never fit.

Totally agree on the rest. All that said, the forwards need to also get a lot better- carrying effectively/with purpose would be a start, rather than just for the sake of it.

Banquo, your last sentence sums up what I was trying to get at the other day in response to apparently encouraging statistics about our props. I think in just about every unit, Jones is over-complicating. There is no clear message I suspect.

Which Tyler wrote:

Oakboy wrote:I don't want to get my hopes up.

My only other thought is that we might be closer to Ewels not being in the 23.

These 2 sentences seem to be self-contradictory...

A smidgeon of wishful thinking can be allowed, surely?

Portcullis Irish wrote:Sorry just don't rate master of none EfD but if he or another back 3 player is selected on the wing then the one proper winger needs to be a finisher with pace to burn
12 is the glaring deficit in Yoda's record & his failure to find an alternative plagues and stymies the attack. I fear Saturday will be a feast day for Beirne VDF et al as they turnover Slade Steward whoever takes short ball off Smith and runs into Farrells iron jacket defence

Don't be sorry, but EfD has a great record on the wing and is an excellent finisher, as is Jonny May but his time may have passed.

I agree 12 is and has been a massive issue, alongside our discipline and patchy ability to generate quick front foot ball. Farrell has been a stop gap roadblock there for too long. In defence of Tinda, he would like to stick the ever injured Manu there, and there have been very few EQP's who have shown at 12 (though missed the chance with all of Williams, Redpath, and even Tompkins).

Could be a tough day on Saturday if the forwards don't turn up at their very best.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Portcullis Irish wrote:Cheers 5 Pointer Healthy debate not @rse kissing whats need when serious business of England rugby being debated.
Yoda hasn't failed but the current state of the team is a consequence of his previous errors as far as I'm concerned - experimenting with a 9 because he's farked around Robson Spencer and Mitchell to an extent. I'm no fan of Randall as solution Quirke or Mitchell better players for me.

12 - who replaces/competes with Tuilagi give up so lets convert Slade hmm why haven't Devoto or Atkinson been given more than about 100 mins between them?

Back 3 - don't pick any winger other than My or Nowell Watson absence excepted and instead rely on turnstile EfD or shoehorn Malins and to lesser extent Marchant into the team. Radwan scoring 5? tries v Canada all well and good but why not select him in Rome?? Thorley tore it up in 2020 but Yoda didn't pick him and I'll bet 6p to a pile of Eddie bullshit that Thorley lost confidence in no small part due to that dicking around.

There's a long list of blokes whom Yoda has dicked around failed to put his faith in whilst EfD Youngs Ewels Faz were picked despite being mediocre and often kept players performing better out

Yes he's had injuries to cope with but his failures of selection in 2020 and 2021 mean everything is now forced.

EfD is a turnstile at 13, but a bloody good winger.
Atkinson is a plodder now and Devoto never fit.

Totally agree on the rest. All that said, the forwards need to also get a lot better- carrying effectively/with purpose would be a start, rather than just for the sake of it.

Banquo, your last sentence sums up what I was trying to get at the other day in response to apparently encouraging statistics about our props. I think in just about every unit, Jones is over-complicating. There is no clear message I suspect.

I thought I'd posted exactly that before, but I am getting a tad senile. Also said that we are overthinking a coupla weeks back too.

How exactly are we defining shoe horning for Malins? He's probably played more minutes on the wing for his clubs than any other position. Marchant equally has played a huge amount on the wing as well as 13 for Quins (and I think in his time in super rugby too).

And Atkinson? Really? He's an old plodder, who's good at prem but if he was going to be brought, it needed to be 5 years ago.

You may not rate Daly, but he was good for England, and good for the Lions too on the wing, in my mind that means he's got to have something about him.

Raggs wrote:How exactly are we defining shoe horning for Malins? He's probably played more minutes on the wing for his clubs than any other position. Marchant equally has played a huge amount on the wing as well as 13 for Quins (and I think in his time in super rugby too).

And Atkinson? Really? He's an old plodder, who's good at prem but if he was going to be brought, it needed to be 5 years ago.

You may not rate Daly, but he was good for England, and good for the Lions too on the wing, in my mind that means he's got to have something about him.

Fair on Malins and Marchant, but neither have looked exactly comfortable on the wing for England. Malins especially looks very nervy to me.

Malins spent all of age grade rugby at 10, moved to 15, predominantly, when first breaking into the senior team at Sarries before moving to wing midway through last season whilst at Bristol. He’s not particularly experienced there, particularly when alongside a newbie at 15 and revolving selections at 13.
I also wouldn’t say Marchant’s experience on the wing is ‘huge’.
Daly could and should have been one of the best wingers in the world for the past five years.

I played most of my rugby on the wing. I was shit.

I blame Mr Park

p/d wrote:I played most of my rugby on the wing. I was shit.

I blame Mr Park

Hyde?

Mellsblue wrote:Malins spent all of age grade rugby at 10, moved to 15, predominantly, when first breaking into the senior team at Sarries before moving to wing midway through last season whilst at Bristol. He’s not particularly experienced there, particularly when alongside a newbie at 15 and revolving selections at 13.
I also wouldn’t say Marchant’s experience on the wing is ‘huge’.
Daly could and should have been one of the best wingers in the world for the past five years.

Pretty much this.

Malins doesn't look an international first choice wing to me.

Daly should be one of the world's best.

SO PICK THEM THAT WAY! If Malins must be in the 23, stick him in the 23 shirt. Then we can get a flier (Daly) and a nugget (Nowell) on the wings, and not a nugget and a wishy washy blonde fullback.

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:I played most of my rugby on the wing. I was shit.

I blame Mr Park

Hyde?

Only in defence

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:I played most of my rugby on the wing. I was shit.

I blame Mr Park

Hyde?

Only in defence

Well spotted

Stom wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Malins spent all of age grade rugby at 10, moved to 15, predominantly, when first breaking into the senior team at Sarries before moving to wing midway through last season whilst at Bristol. He’s not particularly experienced there, particularly when alongside a newbie at 15 and revolving selections at 13.
I also wouldn’t say Marchant’s experience on the wing is ‘huge’.
Daly could and should have been one of the best wingers in the world for the past five years.

Pretty much this.

Malins doesn't look an international first choice wing to me.

Daly should be one of the world's best.

SO PICK THEM THAT WAY! If Malins must be in the 23, stick him in the 23 shirt. Then we can get a flier (Daly) and a nugget (Nowell) on the wings, and not a nugget and a wishy washy blonde fullback.

'a nugget'. That will be Eddie's new term for the bench; Golden Nuggets

Portcullis Irish wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Portcullis Irish wrote:So Yoda has kept 4 locks + Chessum?

Makes me think a 6/2 bench incoming with Ewels Chessum & Barbeary/Simmonds Randall & Daly Given the paucity of a cutting edge a fresh pack to stifle Ireland may be the best available option to win the game but frankly........its meh
Does Yoda have faith in Slade/Malins to cover 10 for 70+ mins if Smith gets steamrolled by Aki first up??

What an indictment of Yoda's player development skills since 2019 it all is.

If we lose these last 2 games will the RFU have the gonads to ditch tinkerman ?

I won't mention your last sentence on the grounds that I don't want to get my hopes up.

As regards the bench, I just can't entertain not having Ford there from the players retained. If it is 6:2, I think we'll see Randall and Ford - risky as that is. I'm probably wrong (hardly unknown!!) but I think the 6:2 bench was dismissed with Furbank's departure, the only viable 10/12/15 theoretically.

The extra forwards retained may indicate more doubts than we hope about Curry and Dombrandt. My only other thought is that we might be closer to Ewels not being in the 23.

Ford and Randall hmm wouldn surely Nowell Malins & EfD mean make the 15

Sorry, you've lost me. Would the starting backs not be Youngs, Smith, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Nowell (or Malins), Steward? So, with a 6:2, one of Daly, Nowell or Malins (preferably) would not be in the 23??

If we go 6:2 is it better to have a back 3 cover sub, and Malins covering 10 or Ford on the bench and the prospect of Smith at FB or on the wing?

Best bet is Nowell in the 23 shirt covering flanker.

32nd Man wrote:If we go 6:2 is it better to have a back 3 cover sub, and Malins covering 10 or Ford on the bench and the prospect of Smith at FB or on the wing?

just don't go 6:2 is a better answer

Great quote from Marler re Tadhg Furlong...."He looks like a very traditional front-rower - a melted wheelie bin a bit like me."

Banquo wrote:

32nd Man wrote:If we go 6:2 is it better to have a back 3 cover sub, and Malins covering 10 or Ford on the bench and the prospect of Smith at FB or on the wing?

just don't go 6:2 is a better answer

I agree. 7:1 is the way to go.