Stade de France Saturday 19th March

[Danno]

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

That's harsh. Malins isn't hitting the heights as an international that we all hoped for (as of yet), but he's better than that.

Puja

This 6N he kinda isn't, though... (as someone who likes him as a player in general).

This. He's been very Jonny May 2014 without the pace imo. And he simply isn't a winger, so I've no idea where he fits in other than the 23 shirt/Steward backup

[fivepointer]

I wonder if anyone on the wing could make much of an impact the way we are playing. Tough to make much of a mark when you dont get a pass and have very little involvement in the attacking play.
Malins is the kind of player who benefits from multiple involvements. He's not primarily a finisher so he needs to used to help set up others. Whats disappointing is that he isnt being employed in a secondary playmaker role that could suit him very well.

[FKAS]

That's harsh. Malins isn't hitting the heights as an international that we all hoped for (as of yet), but he's better than that.

Puja

This 6N he kinda isn't, though... (as someone who likes him as a player in general).

This. He's been very Jonny May 2014 without the pace imo. And he simply isn't a winger, so I've no idea where he fits in other than the 23 shirt/Steward backup

He feels like a square peg in a round hole. In theory Malins on the wing could make sense, he could be an alternative secondary playmaker and would then allow England to select a more direct midfield. Bit of a different attacking set up but could definitely work. Except that's not what we've chosen to do and instead we've got a guy that's used to his midfield holding defences at club level dealing with little room to work with in a misfiring backline. He would be high up my list of potential sacrifices to give England an alternative weapon.

Having said that he's good under the high ball and France looked susceptible to that I would imagine a tactic this weekend will be to try and isolate Jaminet under the high ball up against one of the English back three.

[francoisfou]

Does Malins suffer from the label "utility back"? Undoubtedly, he's a talented player but he's clearly left wanting as an out and out Test winger.

When there are players like Hassell-Collins, Lynagh, Potter and Radwan who show week-in and week-out, what they can do, it's a travesty that Eddie persists with selecting Malins.

[Puja]

I was expecting not to see Malins run out for the second half, with Jones seeing 13 v 15 as a more favourable option.

That's harsh. Malins isn't hitting the heights as an international that we all hoped for (as of yet), but he's better than that.

Puja

This 6N he kinda isn't, though... (as someone who likes him as a player in general).

Not better than literally not being there? Harsh.

Also, hasn't he been involved in about 50% of our non-Italy clean breaks by hanging about on Smith's shoulder against Wales?

Puja

[Oakboy]

I've said for some time that it should be Nowell OR Malins, not both. Nowell is the better scrapper/odd-jobber of the two. He should be picked with a speed merchant/finisher on the other wing.

It seems to me that until we get far better attack coaching in the mix and develop our own effective style, chances are going to be few and far between. With that in mind, a winger who can score a try out of nothing (May at his peak or Coka as hoped for) is necessary. I'd risk other relative weaknesses to have that asset. Daly at his peak as a winger would have answered. Now, who knows? Jones may have destroyed his capacity there with messing him about.

For the France game, I think I'd risk Lynagh.

[Raggs]

With the 50/22 you pretty much need 2 fullbacks permanently. Arguably you need 5 players that are competent in the back field, since after a round or two of kick tennis, the original ones will have run up chasing kicks and putting people on side.

[Mikey Brown]

I've said for some time that it should be Nowell OR Malins, not both. Nowell is the better scrapper/odd-jobber of the two. He should be picked with a speed merchant/finisher on the other wing.

It seems to me that until we get far better attack coaching in the mix and develop our own effective style, chances are going to be few and far between. With that in mind, a winger who can score a try out of nothing (May at his peak or Coka as hoped for) is necessary. I'd risk other relative weaknesses to have that asset. Daly at his peak as a winger would have answered. Now, who knows? Jones may have destroyed his capacity there with messing him about.

For the France game, I think I'd risk Lynagh.

Lynagh does have surprising tackle-busting/straight-running ability, and the real poacher's instinct for a try, but he is quite inconsistent. He might be better suited to this gameplan that doesn't seemingly involve trying to give the wingers any good ball, but I can't really see it.

[Beasties]

I’m starting to think that maybe OHC would be the best fit for this current Eng team. Primarily thinking about the forcefulness of his running, which we desperately need right now. Malins simply isn’t the man for that particular job at this point.

[Puja]

I'm not sure how changing a winger would accomplish a huge amount here. Sure Malins hasn't been *great*, but do we really think Radwan or OHC or Lynagh (who is also on the list of "not first choice for his club team") would have done better being on the end of this backline?

Puja

[Stom]

I'd be inclined to say just pick Radwan. If you can't have power, go for all out pace. We need something.

If Coka can get back to somewhere close to his best, he's surely a shoe in for that 11 shirt, with Watson providing that pace on the other side.

I honestly don't see the point of Malins considering our options who can play 15. We could select a back 3 group of:

Coka, Watson, Nowell, Daly, Radwan, Steward. That has only 2 out and out wingers, and 3 can play FB, while Slade has shown himself adept there covering in emergencies.

[Stom]

I'm not sure how changing a winger would accomplish a huge amount here. Sure Malins hasn't been *great*, but do we really think Radwan or OHC or Lynagh (who is also on the list of "not first choice for his club team") would have done better being on the end of this backline?

Puja

I think Lynagh is first choice, he's just having a little downtime atm, as he's played a lot of rugby.

And I think it's totally worth looking for a player who can offer something different. The issue is there aren't many options to do that, so wing is where we can make a change.

If we had a hard running centre, sure, don't change it. But we don't, so inject some out and out pace into that backline, please. Just something a little different.

[Oakboy]

I'm not sure how changing a winger would accomplish a huge amount here. Sure Malins hasn't been *great*, but do we really think Radwan or OHC or Lynagh (who is also on the list of "not first choice for his club team") would have done better being on the end of this backline?

Puja

I think Lynagh is first choice, he's just having a little downtime atm, as he's played a lot of rugby.

And I think it's totally worth looking for a player who can offer something different. The issue is there aren't many options to do that, so wing is where we can make a change.

If we had a hard running centre, sure, don't change it. But we don't, so inject some out and out pace into that backline, please. Just something a little different.

Stom, that sums it up exactly.

[Banquo]

I wonder if anyone on the wing could make much of an impact the way we are playing. Tough to make much of a mark when you dont get a pass and have very little involvement in the attacking play.
Malins is the kind of player who benefits from multiple involvements. He's not primarily a finisher so he needs to used to help set up others. Whats disappointing is that he isnt being employed in a secondary playmaker role that could suit him very well.

No issue with any of that, but his basic wing play has just been poor. Too many mistakes; I watched him closely at the Wales game, and he just looked nervous and out of his depth. IMO he's best at 10. Bit worried that Which correctly pointed out he's possibly second choice at 15 (though I reckon it could be Furbank)- I'm not convinced by him there either on the very few occasions I've seen him there.

I would say, repeating myself, that with the current backs available, need to look at the their strengths in the round and then figure out how to maximise those in attack.

[Scrumhead]

I'm not sure how changing a winger would accomplish a huge amount here. Sure Malins hasn't been *great*, but do we really think Radwan or OHC or Lynagh (who is also on the list of "not first choice for his club team") would have done better being on the end of this backline?

Puja

I think Lynagh is first choice, he's just having a little downtime atm, as he's played a lot of rugby.

And I think it's totally worth looking for a player who can offer something different. The issue is there aren't many options to do that, so wing is where we can make a change.

If we had a hard running centre, sure, don't change it. But we don't, so inject some out and out pace into that backline, please. Just something a little different.

Seconded.

Worth mentioning that Lynagh’s had a recent bout of covid and a couple of injury niggles. Quins also put a lot of faith in the gum shield data for managing game time. Players that are a bit battered generally get a bit of time off. I suspect there are elements of all of the above feeding in to Lynagh’s lack of starts.

[Banquo]

With the 50/22 you pretty much need 2 fullbacks permanently. Arguably you need 5 players that are competent in the back field, since after a round or two of kick tennis, the original ones will have run up chasing kicks and putting people on side.

Then pick Daly, who is a better wing than Malins, and further has a bigger and left footed boot. Or stick Smith in the backfield permanently as he is easy yards for the attack (like most 10's)- and in fact most sides do stick their 10 in the backfield after a phase or two, and then adapt when the kicker chases.

[Raggs]

With the 50/22 you pretty much need 2 fullbacks permanently. Arguably you need 5 players that are competent in the back field, since after a round or two of kick tennis, the original ones will have run up chasing kicks and putting people on side.

Then pick Daly, who is a better wing than Malins, and further has a bigger and left footed boot. Or stick Smith in the backfield permanently as he is easy yards for the attack (like most 10's)- and in fact most sides do stick their 10 in the backfield after a phase or two, and then adapt when the kicker chases.

Yes, it's the then adapt bit I'm talking about. Teams have always had to adapt, but now it requires 2 men in the backfield at all times. No more Halfpenny/Kearney types that can easily marshal by themselves. As soon as the first bit of kick tennis starts, someone else is going to need to be back there, if not 2 someones.

[Mr Mwenda]

Blimey this thread is a depressing read. Apparently Jones gives some people too much of a run in a shirt but at the same time is too quick to jettison others after a look and sometimes brings people into the squad too early after injury. I don't know either how he or how England wins this week, although France aren't out of sight for this England squad if it shows up.

[jngf]

Barring training injuries, general mishaps, covid, scrumpox and any other undesirable infections, the French team to confront England will probably be:

Starting XV: Jaminet; Villière, Danty, Fickou, Penaud; Ntamack, Dupont; Alldritt, Cros, Jelonch, Woki, Willemse, Baille, Marchand, Atonio.

Les finisseurs: Mauvaka, Gros, Haouas, Taofifenua, Flament, Cretin, Lucu, Ramos. (the bench was 5:3 in Cardiff, but Galthié will surely revert to 6:2 next Saturday).

While there are no obvious weaknesses in their playing ability, mentally they will be vulnerable, as they usually are before playing England. Their fickle supporters will be expecting a Grand Slam but if England can force some mistakes and get the French crowd to start whistling and jeering, a surprise could be on the cards.
This match is tailor-made for a Brian Moore type of player, one who gets under the oppo's skin and persistently niggles. Genge is capable of doing this but he's equally capable of seeing the red mist, which wouldn't be very productive.
This has the makings of a fascinating match and could be as tight as a "cul de canard"!!

Would be tempted to try the Nowell, Simmonds, Dombrandt combo again - the French back row is comparitively big yet quite nicely balanced however none of them are especially quick and think it’s going to be hard to go like for like

[Banquo]

With the 50/22 you pretty much need 2 fullbacks permanently. Arguably you need 5 players that are competent in the back field, since after a round or two of kick tennis, the original ones will have run up chasing kicks and putting people on side.

Then pick Daly, who is a better wing than Malins, and further has a bigger and left footed boot. Or stick Smith in the backfield permanently as he is easy yards for the attack (like most 10's)- and in fact most sides do stick their 10 in the backfield after a phase or two, and then adapt when the kicker chases.

Yes, it's the then adapt bit I'm talking about. Teams have always had to adapt, but now it requires 2 men in the backfield at all times. No more Halfpenny/Kearney types that can easily marshal by themselves. As soon as the first bit of kick tennis starts, someone else is going to need to be back there, if not 2 someones.

TBH 10 has been dropping there since before 50/22. Wingers have more decisions to make, I agree and either the 10 or the 15 has to marshall them; Slade was dropping back in the AI's when we went full numbers on the back don't matter to our detriment. The downside of 50/22 is that you consequently get even more kick tennis imo, and I'm not convinced its worth it, as sides don't seem to want exploit the numbers mismatch.

[Peej]

Malins dropped

[Mikey Brown]

Forwards

Alfie Barbeary (Wasps, uncapped)

Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)

Nic Dolly (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)

Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 8 caps)

Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 35 caps)

Jamie George (Saracens, 65 caps)

Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 55 caps)

Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 6 caps)

Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 70 caps)

Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 92 caps)

Joe Marler (Harlequins, 78 caps)

Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 13 caps)

Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 51 caps)

Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)

Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 27 caps)

Backs

Elliot Daly (Saracens, 56 caps)

George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps)

George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)

Louis Lynagh (Harlequins, uncapped)

Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 11 caps)

Luke Northmore (Harlequins, uncapped)

Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 38 caps)

Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 5 caps)

Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 47 caps)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 9 caps)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)

Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 116 caps)

[Mikey Brown]

I'm guessing Furbank's presence means he's thinking about 6:2 again? Or Steward is a concern maybe? Though I think I say that every time I see a training squad now. I don't know why Furbank is deemed better 10/15 cover than Malins but there you go.

[Mellsblue]

Let’s just hope he doesn’t plan to station Steward on the wing against the two best wingers in the comp. Anything else is a bonus.
Furbank has played a lot more at 10 in the last two seasons than Malins. I’d like to say Malins hasn’t played any 10 other than in an emergency in that time but I don’t have any empirical evidence for that and I know the board frowns upon any assertion that isn’t referenced with at least three peer reviewed sources.

[Gloskarlos]

How is Sinckler there still - wasn't he diagnosed with concussion?