Northampton v Bath; Sunday, 3.00

[Scrumhead]

Fair play to him for owning it.

[Which Tyler]

Is he talking about the late tackle or the hit to the head?

[Oakboy]

Has Lawrence declined in the board's estimation? This time last year I'd have been convinced he was there to stay as half of England's centre pairing, probably with Freeman replacing Slade as his partner eventually. Now, though? Taking this example of his character and thinking about his contribution in the AIs, are doubts reasonable?

Watching Slade's consistency for Exeter (as he tries to bail Baxter out of his failure to find any halfbacks) maybe his star is on the rise as Lawrence's wanes. It's a funny old game.

[Which Tyler]

Lawrence has always had the odd question mark against him - mostly ball security and presentation; with a "why on earth is SB playing him as a crash-ball IC?"
I guess we expected his personal question marks to be work ons, and for him to improve - which has been... slow at best.
The question over Slack Bladder remains.

His character? seems like a load of nothing, as far as I can see. I late tackle (with minimal wrap) that was yellow at worst, but seen most games; and a processing delay on a hit to the head - neither of which are suggestive of bad character, unless someone really wants it to be.


Henry Slade has flattered to deceive for approximately 65 of his 70 England caps.
We know what he can do at club level, but he's yet to really prove himself at international level.

[Mikey Brown]

Lawrence has always had the odd question mark against him - mostly ball security and presentation; with a "why on earth is SB playing him as a crash-ball IC?"
I guess we expected his personal question marks to be work ons, and for him to improve - which has been... slow at best.
The question over Slack Bladder remains.

His character? seems like a load of nothing, as far as I can see. I late tackle (with minimal wrap) that was yellow at worst, but seen most games; and a processing delay on a hit to the head - neither of which are suggestive of bad character, unless someone really wants it to be.

Henry Slade has flattered to deceive for approximately 65 of his 70 England caps.
We know what he can do at club level, but he's yet to really prove himself at international level.

This seems about right. We hoped his ball retention and all round game might have come on a bit further, but at the same time it doesn’t feel like he’s been setup to play his natural attacking game.

Maybe he was a bit overzealous with that tackle, but we want him to be a competitor and a physical presence. Not a great way to show it, but it’s hardly a black mark against him as a person.

I like the concept of Freeman at 13 for England and love what I’ve seen at club level, but I don’t think anyone was hoping for him to partner Lawrence at 12.

Slade has occasional great moments too, but never seems to have become the midfield fulcrum we thought he could.

[TheNomad]

I do think Lawrence is less well percevied these days than previously, yes.

Good player, but I think he maybe lacks the game breaking ability we'd like at 13 (that I'd argue Freeman has), nor, as a 12, does he really fulfill either the 'crash ball' strength in contact you'd want, or (if you're looking for a different type) the defensive solidity/organisation or the distribution.

I think centres need a re-think. Freeman should be one, and the other, take your pick from the likes of Dingwall, S.Atkinson etc.

[Mikey Brown]

I do think Lawrence is less well percevied these days than previously, yes.

Good player, but I think he maybe lacks the game breaking ability we'd like at 13 (that I'd argue Freeman has), nor, as a 12, does he really fulfill either the 'crash ball' strength in contact you'd want, or (if you're looking for a different type) the defensive solidity/organisation or the distribution.

I think centres need a re-think. Freeman should be one, and the other, take your pick from the likes of Dingwall, S.Atkinson etc.

They’re not ready, but imagining what 12. Atkinson 13. Freeman could be for England if they keep improving at their current rate is exciting.

Definitely wouldn’t mind seeing Dingwall in either centre shirt again in the short-term though.

Lawrence I think is enough of a threat to stay in the conversation even if his ratio of impacts to errors isn’t quite what we’d like.

[Puja]

Lawrence has always had the odd question mark against him - mostly ball security and presentation; with a "why on earth is SB playing him as a crash-ball IC?"
I guess we expected his personal question marks to be work ons, and for him to improve - which has been... slow at best.
The question over Slack Bladder remains.

His character? seems like a load of nothing, as far as I can see. I late tackle (with minimal wrap) that was yellow at worst, but seen most games; and a processing delay on a hit to the head - neither of which are suggestive of bad character, unless someone really wants it to be.


Henry Slade has flattered to deceive for approximately 65 of his 70 England caps.
We know what he can do at club level, but he's yet to really prove himself at international level.

Very much agreed. Lawrence has yet to be actively good for England, but that's almost entirely because we're asking him to do something that really doesn't suit his skillset (or lack of it, in some cases). I'm more than a little disappointed that he hasn't improved his weaknesses over the past few years, but that doesn't change the fact that we are playing to those weaknesses and it's unfair to condemn him because of that.

I don't want to see him at crash-ball 12 again (even if he's wearing a 13 shirt) and I don't want to see him alongside Slade. Doesn't mean that I don't want to see him for England at all.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I missed the opening flurry from Saints, so it’s quite funny to now see the first try is Smith throwing an interception and getting pretty lucky it’s 7 points to Northampton rather than Bath.

Lovely chip and chase to follow it up.

Defenders just look constantly on edge when Mitchell has the ball. Great to see him back. I hope he can refind his previous England form.

It’s a shame Hutchinson didn’t look quite cut out for international rugby. His feel for a pass is incredible.

[fivepointer]

Has Lawrence declined in the board's estimation? This time last year I'd have been convinced he was there to stay as half of England's centre pairing, probably with Freeman replacing Slade as his partner eventually. Now, though? Taking this example of his character and thinking about his contribution in the AIs, are doubts reasonable?

Watching Slade's consistency for Exeter (as he tries to bail Baxter out of his failure to find any halfbacks) maybe his star is on the rise as Lawrence's wanes. It's a funny old game.

he's our best option at OC. He has the ability make a break or set up a support runner with offloads that mark him out. He's not perfect. He does make silly errors that he shouldnt but given a bit of space to work with he is often mightily effective in attack.

our problem - which we have had since Greenwood retired - is to find someone to play inside centre.

[Mellsblue]

I don’t think Lawrence is (currently?) a test player as I don’t think he has the required ‘top two inches’. As for his actions yesterday:
a) quite liked the late hit after Henry hit Russell legally late a few mins earlier but a bit of subtlety wouldn’t have gone amiss.
b) the stopping of play after get his nose tickled was weird and wrong, imo, but it’s hardly overwhelming evidence of a deep-seated character flaw.

[Mikey Brown]

Has Lawrence declined in the board's estimation? This time last year I'd have been convinced he was there to stay as half of England's centre pairing, probably with Freeman replacing Slade as his partner eventually. Now, though? Taking this example of his character and thinking about his contribution in the AIs, are doubts reasonable?

Watching Slade's consistency for Exeter (as he tries to bail Baxter out of his failure to find any halfbacks) maybe his star is on the rise as Lawrence's wanes. It's a funny old game.

he's our best option at OC. He has the ability make a break or set up a support runner with offloads that mark him out. He's not perfect. He does make silly errors that he shouldnt but given a bit of space to work with he is often mightily effective in attack.

our problem - which we have had since Greenwood retired - is to find someone to play inside centre.

Have you heard of this guy Seb Atkinson?

[Which Tyler]

Have you heard of this guy Seb Atkinson?

If only he didn't play for Gloucester

[Mellsblue]

He needs to be farking brilliantly (and it’s certainly possible) if he ever gets called up!

[Mikey Brown]

Are you sure that’s what you meant to type?

[paddy no 11]

You can get a bang on the nose and its OK and about a second later you can't see shit as eyes fill with water. Genuinely think that's what happened him, and it's safer to go down rather than getting pulverised by a defender you literally can't see

[twitchy]

A lot of fuss about nothing, I thought that was an absolutely brilliant match as a neutral. More of that from other teams please.

Any news on hendy?

[Mellsblue]

Are you sure that’s what you meant to type?

lol. No, farking autocorrect.

[Puja]

Ollie Lawrence has made a statement on TikTok - have copied a partial transcript from a Telegraph article for those who don't Tok any Tiks.

“We collided head-on-head,” said Lawrence. “It wasn’t bad enough, probably, for me to go down in the way that I did. I probably could have carried on and allowed the ref to pull it back afterwards if he thought there was foul play, but in that moment, whether my judgement was clouded or not, I felt like I was hit head-on-head, so I went down.

“I was completely entitled to. I didn’t cheat the system. I didn’t dive. By the letter of the law, and for our own safety, if there’s a head collision, you’re allowed to go down and the ref can review it. Obviously a lot of fans weren’t happy with that, which is fair enough. I understand your perspective and I apologised online and I said: ‘If you took offence to what I did, then I’m sorry.’ But I didn’t, which is what a lot of people think, and I didn’t dive. And I’m pretty sure if you watch back the game and see everything as a whole, you’ll realise the significance of that moment and how important that was for us to get into a position to win the game.

“And I don’t think I was cheating. People say I brought the game into disrepute. I would argue that I didn’t. I just went by the letter of the law. But I do apologise for that because, at the end of the day, there are a lot of kids that look up to us as players and I don’t want people to think that I’m a cheat or a diver. I want people to play the game and enjoy it and play it in the right spirit so, like I said, I apologise for my actions in that moment. I’ll leave the referee to decide if there’s head contact in the future.”

It would've been hilarious had the referee come to the same conclusion that he had a few minutes before with the Coetzee head contact and said that there was nothing Mitchell could do to get out of the way. I hate that he deliberately stopped a promising attacking move because he wanted to make sure the TMO saw the penalty offence and I am very glad that it didn't cost Saints the game.

While it is something of a "Technically speaking, it could be argued that I wasn't in the wrong" style of apology, fair play to him for actually apologising for it. Hopefully that kind of action won't proliferate any further.

Puja

[Banquo]

Ollie Lawrence has made a statement on TikTok - have copied a partial transcript from a Telegraph article for those who don't Tok any Tiks.

“We collided head-on-head,” said Lawrence. “It wasn’t bad enough, probably, for me to go down in the way that I did. I probably could have carried on and allowed the ref to pull it back afterwards if he thought there was foul play, but in that moment, whether my judgement was clouded or not, I felt like I was hit head-on-head, so I went down.

“I was completely entitled to. I didn’t cheat the system. I didn’t dive. By the letter of the law, and for our own safety, if there’s a head collision, you’re allowed to go down and the ref can review it. Obviously a lot of fans weren’t happy with that, which is fair enough. I understand your perspective and I apologised online and I said: ‘If you took offence to what I did, then I’m sorry.’ But I didn’t, which is what a lot of people think, and I didn’t dive. And I’m pretty sure if you watch back the game and see everything as a whole, you’ll realise the significance of that moment and how important that was for us to get into a position to win the game.

“And I don’t think I was cheating. People say I brought the game into disrepute. I would argue that I didn’t. I just went by the letter of the law. But I do apologise for that because, at the end of the day, there are a lot of kids that look up to us as players and I don’t want people to think that I’m a cheat or a diver. I want people to play the game and enjoy it and play it in the right spirit so, like I said, I apologise for my actions in that moment. I’ll leave the referee to decide if there’s head contact in the future.”

It would've been hilarious had the referee come to the same conclusion that he had a few minutes before with the Coetzee head contact and said that there was nothing Mitchell could do to get out of the way. I hate that he deliberately stopped a promising attacking move because he wanted to make sure the TMO saw the penalty offence and I am very glad that it didn't cost Saints the game.

While it is something of a "Technically speaking, it could be argued that I wasn't in the wrong" style of apology, fair play to him for actually apologising for it. Hopefully that kind of action won't proliferate any further.

Puja

aye to all that.

[Mellsblue]

Thirded.
More importantly, can we now start calling him Wally Lawrence?