RugbyRebels

There's no cure for being a cunt.

Puja wrote:I love how people talk about the "extreme left" in America and how they're causing division with their extremist politics and they're actually just asking for a national health service, actual employment rights, and for the police not to be able to abitrarily murder people without consequences.

Mind, it's nearly as bad here with Corbyn being the next thing to a communist for wanting natural monopolies like utilities and rail to be nationalised.

Puja

Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:I love how people talk about the "extreme left" in America and how they're causing division with their extremist politics and they're actually just asking for a national health service, actual employment rights, and for the police not to be able to abitrarily murder people without consequences.

Mind, it's nearly as bad here with Corbyn being the next thing to a communist for wanting natural monopolies like utilities and rail to be nationalised.

Puja

Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:I love how people talk about the "extreme left" in America and how they're causing division with their extremist politics and they're actually just asking for a national health service, actual employment rights, and for the police not to be able to abitrarily murder people without consequences.

Mind, it's nearly as bad here with Corbyn being the next thing to a communist for wanting natural monopolies like utilities and rail to be nationalised.

Puja

Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

I really don't get the American view of health service provision and I'm glad I don't have to live with it.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

I really don't get the American view of health service provision and I'm glad I don't have to live with it.

Unless you're in the top 5%, maybe top 1% and/or you're one of those in essence gaming the system it makes little to no sense. Nonetheless if that's what people want they should be entitled to vote for it, even if I happen to think many don't understand what they're voting for

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:I love how people talk about the "extreme left" in America and how they're causing division with their extremist politics and they're actually just asking for a national health service, actual employment rights, and for the police not to be able to abitrarily murder people without consequences.

Mind, it's nearly as bad here with Corbyn being the next thing to a communist for wanting natural monopolies like utilities and rail to be nationalised.

Puja

Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

Depends a bit on wording and when you conduct the survey, but basically yes. But it's not a single issue, and a lot of people even if supporting M4A in isolation will vote taxes, or guns/abortion

And the electoral college doesn't do too much to the debate of California Vs Iowa, the Senate is a much bigger influencer, and that does skew wildly in favour of the smaller states, which in part is as intended.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

Depends a bit on wording and when you conduct the survey, but basically yes. But it's not a single issue, and a lot of people even if supporting M4A in isolation will vote taxes, or guns/abortion

And the electoral college doesn't do too much to the debate of California Vs Iowa, the Senate is a much bigger influencer, and that does skew wildly in favour of the smaller states, which in part is as intended.

You say that like the Republicans haven't lost 8 out of the last 9 popular votes for President while still ending up with 4 presidential victories.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

Depends a bit on wording and when you conduct the survey, but basically yes. But it's not a single issue, and a lot of people even if supporting M4A in isolation will vote taxes, or guns/abortion

And the electoral college doesn't do too much to the debate of California Vs Iowa, the Senate is a much bigger influencer, and that does skew wildly in favour of the smaller states, which in part is as intended.

You say that like the Republicans haven't lost 8 out of the last 9 popular votes for President while still ending up with 4 presidential victories.

Puja

True, but the flip side to that is an awful lot more GOP voters in California have their votes count for nothing than do Dems in Iowa. Also people know in many instances their vote doesn't count because the winner takes all the votes for each state, so I tend to be guarded around claims of winning the popular vote.

Congress is as close as we get to a 'fair' vote and that is quite close. Though whilst both sides cheat somewhat the gerrymandering by the GOP has been breathtaking in getting their girls and boys into Congress. Additionally if one looks down ballot the GOP have been filling an awful lot of local positions, partly they've been better organised and realised they can address many of their concerns from multiple local instances, but also there are an awful lot of GOP voters when taking the range of election positions into account.

morepork wrote:There's no cure for being a cunt.

Did you try hydroxychloroquine? With zinc! Otherwise it doesn’t work.

Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, and Steve Bannon, the racist cunt trifecta, are actively recruiting and stirring up a culture war, and all have Trump's ear right now. They are drumming up violent responses to a non-existent conspiracy designed to mask the armed white supremacist hate fest. There are now over 20 000 troops in DC.

Organised hate groups are allowed for white people are they?

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:
Where someone is extreme depends on your own viewpoint. If you can only see one extreme, then its likely that you are an extremist yourself. Fro the centre, albeit slight to the right, its possible to see 2 clear extremes. Those who hold moderate positions need ot ensure they dont use the language of extremism and make the situation worse.

And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

I have vague recollections that Americans pay more in tax for the Public Health Service they don’t have than Brits do for the NHS.

canta_brian wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

I have vague recollections that Americans pay more in tax for the Public Health Service they don’t have than Brits do for the NHS.

Medicare and Medicaid are paid for by taxes. Then you pay additional "tax" for private health insurance. Genius.

So... this Biden guy seems like a fucking chump, huh?

canta_brian wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
And there is for all I think people should want a competent national health service, because it's cheaper, fairer and far more beneficial to society and the economy there is if people don't want it they are entitled to vote for what they want and indeed don't want. Unless someone has a better idea than allowing all adults (pretty much) the vote

Doesn't polling show a majority of Americans support a Medicare for All program? It's the weird electoral system that gives more importance to Iowa voters than California voters which means it doesn't get enacted.

Puja

I have vague recollections that Americans pay more in tax for the Public Health Service they don’t have than Brits do for the NHS.

Cummatively they pay far more, and typically for worse outcomes/more expensive treatments with more people seen at more acute stages. That impacts both the health and finances of individuals and families and is hugely disruptive to the economy taken as a whole. There's really no way to look at it other than it's a square wheel and it only properly serves those taking large chunks of money out of the system and the top 5% in society.

But within the political structures they have they keep voting to keep it in place. Interesting too just how much of that support often comes from the unions, and not just from the HMOs

The system is bizarre. Obamacare required insc companies to limit non-medical portion of costs to 20% or less. Which they struggled to do. Even then, that means that an $80 procedure will cost you $100 to pay for the pencil pushers.

Also, if you have insc, you get the negotiated rate. i.e. a doc visit might be $180. If you have insc, you get the negotiated rate of $125. Of course you have a $2,000 deductible, so you pay the $125 out of pocket. If you don't have any health insc, you pay the non-negotiated rate of $180. The worst off pay the most.

Medicaid and Medicare run on a fraction of the admin costs of the HMOs. And yet from the normal coverage in many media outlets you'd get the impression private can be equated with efficient and the public services with waste

How it started



How it's going

Baked Alaska, the dumbass who livestreamed himself, has been arrested. You'd think it wouldn't take so long to arrest someone who films and broadcasts themselves committing crimes would be arrested sooner, but there you go.

He was also COVID-positive, and his footage led to a whole other bunch of these idiots being identified and arrested - making him probably one of the more effective operatives against the chuds and neo-nazis.




Also also, he's in a bit of big trouble because he violated his probation too.

cashead wrote:How it started


How it's going

Goes back to the founding myths of America - that confusion between being the persecutor and the persecuted.
The puritans fled "persecution" in the UK - usually neglecting to mention that the persecution they were fleeing was that their right to persecute non-puritans wasn't being tolerated.

That woman is sickening to listen to, but is a fair representation of how many white people view themselves with respect to the law.


I wish something could also be done about media personalities that make a living pushing race war such as that baked alaska idiot. The authorities have really taken their eyes off the ball there.

The evolution of a moron movement, kick started by people freaking out over the possibility of a black president, and formalised by a cynically profitable media niche giving rise to the McCain/Palin ticket. The rot set in.

Guiliani defending his "trial by combat" pep talk immediately prior to the storming of the capitol:

Defending his rally remarks, Giuliani has said that he was quoting from the HBO series Game Of Thrones, which he inexplicably described as a 'famous documentary about fictitious medieval England.'

'I was referencing the kind of trial that took place for Tyrion,' Giuliani told The Hill, referring to a character from the series.

morepork wrote:Guiliani defending his "trial by combat" pep talk immediately prior to the storming of the capitol:

Defending his rally remarks, Giuliani has said that he was quoting from the HBO series Game Of Thrones, which he inexplicably described as a 'famous documentary about fictitious medieval England.'

'I was referencing the kind of trial that took place for Tyrion,' Giuliani told The Hill, referring to a character from the series.

Considering the decline from the Giuliani of 9/11 to this, is there a serious case to be made for some kind of dementia? I appreciate that he wasn't everyone's cup of tea as Mayor of New York, but the ability to be coherent appears to have eluded him entirely.

a famous fictional documentary sounds like it should have something to offer to Rudy, though he'd have looked hopelessly out of his depth as band manager to Spinal Tap

The Guiliani of 9/11 oversaw some pretty callous penny pinching that affected emergency services profoundly. Just ask FDNY.