RugbyRebels

Boring boring boring boring boring boring boring boring. Well done SA

Danno wrote:Boring boring boring boring boring boring boring boring. Well done SA

They played shit rugby better than we can

1. Mako /Jones
2. LCD
3. furlong
4. Henderson
5. Beard
6. Beirne
7. Watson
8. Faletau

9. Price/Davies
10. Russell Smith

11. Adams
12. Bindi Aki
13 Henshaw
14 Watson
15. Williams

You heard it here first [emoji1782]

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The plan seemed to be to beat SA at their own game again and then, when that didn't work, try again. I can see how they were pulled by that first half into thinking it could work but please please try something in attack.

I don't honestly think Williams or anyone else would have dealt with those bombs much better than Hogg as SA got so many bodies around them (Watson is v good under them and also dropped at least two), but equally I don't really see the point of Hogg if that is the game plan.

Hard to blame Biggar as that was clearly the game plan but we all said that 9-13 combo had no creativity. Would love Russell to get a start but who knows if that is even in Gatland's head.

Back row - I'd still pick Beirne, Watson and Faletau but that's mainly cos I think that's been the best back row all along. Today's set got outplayed as a unit but individually weren't terrible. Again, I think the Lions played into SA hands.

In AWJs defence, he was the Lions top tackler on 14, compared with Itoje on 4.

Got to have Williams starting next time, I'd say at full back, although wing would be okay. Surely now is the time to try Adams ... although he'll have to get the ball from the Boks, passing to the wingers clearly isn't part of Gatland's plan.

I don't get what Gatland's doing. The side who gets the best results against South Africa are New Zealand, who avoid directly attacking their strength and play a faster game to move their forwards arounds. He picked an initial squad that looked like it might use that - Watson, Russell, Tipuric, Simmonds, Conan, LCD, Price - but we've then gone on to pick almost none of them and just play staid rugby, trying to outmasculine the Boks at close quarters. Surprisingly enough, the Springboks are better at being the Springboks than we are.

Puja

Gatland watched that RWC final, then the 6N and went you know what. Let’s beat the Bokkes up front.

I see the back 3 are getting a lot of stick , but what do you u expect when your forwards are getting munched up front, the scrum is getting munched and the line out goes to shit.

Before you blame a single back , blame the forwards and the coach who picked the tactics.

I just don’t know if there is a plan B. Even toony has basically accepted that a 9/10 kick and chase is the only thing Gatland wants

My squad for next week

Hogg
Adams
Harris
Henshaw
Russell
Price

Jones
LCD
Sinkler
Beard
Itoje
Beirne
Watson
Simmons

Sutherland
George
Furlong
Lawes
Curry
Davies
Biggar
Williams

But that team would need different tactics

So expect SSDD next Saturday

Puja wrote:I don't get what Gatland's doing. The side who gets the best results against South Africa are New Zealand, who avoid directly attacking their strength and play a faster game to move their forwards arounds. He picked an initial squad that looked like it might use that - Watson, Russell, Tipuric, Simmonds, Conan, LCD, Price - but we've then gone on to pick almost none of them and just play staid rugby, trying to outmasculine the Boks at close quarters. Surprisingly enough, the Springboks are better at being the Springboks than we are.

Puja

Russell and Tipuric have been injured, he’s started LCD, Price and Conan, and brought Watson on. So only Simmonds hasn’t been picked.
But yes, he’s tried to match SA. We don’t have NZ’s players, nor more importantly their (normal) cohesion- they’ve been playing like that for a long time.
I don’t have an answer btw.

Williams in at fb. Get Adam’s on a wing, Aki into the midfield and throw Smith into the mix. Then get Simmonds onto the bench, a 6 at 6, move Curry to 8 with Watson at 7 and pray Jones is fit so Sutherland can watch from the stands

Not just don't have NZ's players, don't remotely have the time to work on such detail in attack. That said in terms of passing well for their role there's only Mako who's quality for his role, the rest are at best functional, some allowance that Murray can ping it wide from 9. Not especially surprising when Gat's isn't exactly famed for running and passing rugby, even his sides that have produced some wide/wide rugby have been turgid in the extreme

The SA defence clearly isn't easy to breakdown tbf. Not sure it'd work for many sides other than SA, but it works very well for SA

Digby wrote:Not just don't have NZ's players, don't remotely have the time to work on such detail in attack. That said in terms of passing well for their role there's only Mako who's quality for his role, the rest are at best functional, some allowance that Murray can ping it wide from 9. Not especially surprising when Gat's isn't exactly famed for running and passing rugby, even his sides that have produced some wide/wide rugby have been turgid in the extreme

The SA defence clearly isn't easy to breakdown tbf. Not sure it'd work for many sides other than SA, but it works very well for SA

Hence the point on cohesion and longevity. Gats imo doesn't have much of a dice to roll, and I'd be pleasantly surprised if he even tried.

p/d wrote:Williams in at fb. Get Adam’s on a wing, Aki into the midfield and throw Smith into the mix. Then get Simmonds onto the bench, a 6 at 6, move Curry to 8 with Watson at 7 and pray Jones is fit so Sutherland can watch from the stands

Change the back 3 or not it makes zero fucking difference if the pack are getting fucked.

I counted two kicks where the players got up without 3-4 players around them. Even when they did catch them the support play was non existent.

Big changes in the pack needed

Presumably Itoje is getting cited for kneeling on DDA’s neck for starters. The Twitter shitstorm is much more entertaining than anything in the game, sadly. At least it will be interesting to see which direction Gatland goes, even if the actual outcome is likely to be incredibly boring once again.

I did laugh when Murray stopped doing his normal kick routine and was basically just punting the ball 10 feet over the top of every breakdown. It was like even he was bored of it at that point.

I’d be very surprised if Itoje gets cited for that. I think he IS trying to rough DDA up, but his knee is on him for less that 2 seconds in total during a ruck and while his other leg is getting pulled.

Did anyone who was paying more attention catch why de Klerk's Farrell style hit in the run up to henshaw's non try was ignored. Ref said he wanted to look at it and it was dismissed very quickly.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Did anyone who was paying more attention catch why de Klerk's Farrell style hit in the run up to henshaw's non try was ignored. Ref said he wanted to look at it and it was dismissed very quickly.

They said he attempted to wrap and didn’t make contact with the head. We, the hoi pilloi, only saw one reply but the tmo was reviewing during play prior to the disallowed try.
I’m sure Erasmus will give a deeper analysis later in the week.

Mellsblue wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:Did anyone who was paying more attention catch why de Klerk's Farrell style hit in the run up to henshaw's non try was ignored. Ref said he wanted to look at it and it was dismissed very quickly.

They said he attempted to wrap and didn’t make contact with the head. We, the hoi pilloi, only saw one reply but the tmo was reviewing during play prior to the disallowed try.
I’m sure Erasmus will give a deeper analysis later in the week.

On the one view I saw, it looked like the archetypical thing that players have been getting red for in the Prem - upright tackle technique and head on head.

Puja

whatisthejava wrote:

p/d wrote:Williams in at fb. Get Adam’s on a wing, Aki into the midfield and throw Smith into the mix. Then get Simmonds onto the bench, a 6 at 6, move Curry to 8 with Watson at 7 and pray Jones is fit so Sutherland can watch from the stands

Change the back 3 or not it makes zero fucking difference if the pack are getting fucked.

I counted two kicks where the players got up without 3-4 players around them. Even when they did catch them the support play was non existent.

Big changes in the pack needed

I sort of hinted at changes in the pack. Jones, Beirne and Watson. And yes I would ditch our captain, but that ain’t going to happen.

L

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:Did anyone who was paying more attention catch why de Klerk's Farrell style hit in the run up to henshaw's non try was ignored. Ref said he wanted to look at it and it was dismissed very quickly.

They said he attempted to wrap and didn’t make contact with the head. We, the hoi pilloi, only saw one reply but the tmo was reviewing during play prior to the disallowed try.
I’m sure Erasmus will give a deeper analysis later in the week.

On the one view I saw, it looked like the archetypical thing that players have been getting red for in the Prem - upright tackle technique and head on head.

Puja

Ditto Kolbe who was lucky not to be red carded twice

In the cold light of day, we have beaten the Boks in two successive halves of rugby, but were taken apart in the 4th half. They gained momentum through the ineptness of the back three and an inability to control their maul, and were able to sustain that when the bench up front were poor to invisible, destabilising the scrum, wobbling the lineout and zero impact in the loose other than more penalties. So the question Gatland has to answer is can we field a better back 3- yes- and how do we shore up the defensive mauling and provide a much better impact from the bench; and even then he has to figure out how we score points, which looks the most difficult to me; the midfield options aren't frightening SA.

Oh ....and increase the tempo. That game was slowed down so the Saffers fitness wasn't tested. Canny, tbh

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: They said he attempted to wrap and didn’t make contact with the head. We, the hoi pilloi, only saw one reply but the tmo was reviewing during play prior to the disallowed try.
I’m sure Erasmus will give a deeper analysis later in the week.

On the one view I saw, it looked like the archetypical thing that players have been getting red for in the Prem - upright tackle technique and head on head.

Puja

Ditto Kolbe who was lucky not to be red carded twice

The two Kolbe incidents reflect two of my annoyances with the way refs referee. If that 1st "tackle" was by a bigger player like a flanker then it is a red.

The second, they discipline based on the outcome rather than the action. The action was extremely reckless and dangerous so should be a red.

I wrote elsewhere that I’d pick Henderson and Itoje for next weeks test, but on reflection I would start with Beard. Take the driving lineout away and then bring on Henderson to knock some holes in the second half.

Might as well have a selection punt (assuming everyone is fit):

Jones
George
Furlough
Beard
Itoje
Beirne
Navidi
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams

Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Henderson
Watson
Davies
Smith
Aki

Sandydragon wrote:Might as well have a selection punt (assuming everyone is fit):

Jones
George
Furlough
Beard
Itoje
Beirne
Navidi
Faletau
Price
Biggar
Adams
Henshaw
Harris
Watson
Williams

Vunipola
Owens
Sinkler
Henderson
Watson
Davies
Smith
Aki

Thought Mako and LCD were two of our better players yesterday, and frankly Owens was awful off the bench.