RugbyRebels

If those three things trump (sorry for swearing) Brexit then Brexit is not too high up your priority list.

Mellsblue wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:No I agree the spineless feckers wouldnt stand on that platform. I accept this will be seen as wishful thinking, but I genuinely think anyone who stood on that platform would win.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

The Lib Dems did at the last GE and it didn’t go so well for them. Similar story in Scotland for the pro-EU parties, as far as I’m aware. I thought the same as you prior to the GE, that the Lib Dems would go well as the only pro-EU party, and said as much on here, but that’s not how it turned out.

I don't remember them explicitly saying they would stop brexit from happening? All I remember them saying was that they wanted as soft a brexit as possible.

I may have missed it, I will admit I don't keep my finger right on the pulse.

The story in Scotland is more complicated, but the anti brexit SNP still swept nearly-all before them.

Donny osmond wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:No I agree the spineless feckers wouldnt stand on that platform. I accept this will be seen as wishful thinking, but I genuinely think anyone who stood on that platform would win.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

The Lib Dems did at the last GE and it didn’t go so well for them. Similar story in Scotland for the pro-EU parties, as far as I’m aware. I thought the same as you prior to the GE, that the Lib Dems would go well as the only pro-EU party, and said as much on here, but that’s not how it turned out.

I don't remember them explicitly saying they would stop brexit from happening? All I remember them saying was that they wanted as soft a brexit as possible.

I may have missed it, I will admit I don't keep my finger right on the pulse.
The explicitly stated they were anti-Brexit.

The story in Scotland is more complicated, but the anti brexit SNP still swept nearly-all before them.

The Lib Dems said they were against Brexit and they would hold a referendum on the outcome of negotiations, with the intention of campaigning to stay in the EU.

The SNP did win a majority but it was a much reduced one. The Scottish Conservatives made big gains even with people knowing they would prop up a pro-Brexit administration. If it weren’t for those gains we wouldn’t have the govt we have now.

The Lid Dems might have enjoyed more success going with a soft brexit manifesto than a 2nd referendum approach.

Looking at recent polls (for what they are worth) it doesn't look like Bregret has really caught on yet and support for a re-run of the last referendum isn't there. Given the obvious weaknesses in both main parties I'm still a bit surprised that an experienced operator like Cable can make more headway, which may suggest that Brexit has been more polarising than was reasonably expected and perhaps Labour's position of saying little means some retainers still harbour hope that a Corbyn led government would keep us in the EU, or at least the single market.

Digby wrote:The Lid Dems might have enjoyed more success going with a soft brexit manifesto than a 2nd referendum approach.

Letting Clegg loose again, is hardly ideal, he is pretty much reviled.

welshsaint wrote:

Digby wrote:The Lid Dems might have enjoyed more success going with a soft brexit manifesto than a 2nd referendum approach.

Letting Clegg loose again, is hardly ideal, he is pretty much reviled.

I like him, though I don't know anyone was suggesting that

Digby wrote:

welshsaint wrote:

Digby wrote:The Lid Dems might have enjoyed more success going with a soft brexit manifesto than a 2nd referendum approach.

Letting Clegg loose again, is hardly ideal, he is pretty much reviled.

I like him, though I don't know anyone was suggesting that

He’s revelling being in opposition to something. He’s not quite so good at defending what he’s done as selling what he wants to do. He’s not alone in that, but I’d suggest he prefers fighting/moaning from the outside than leading from the inside. Though, as David Laws will tell almost anybody, most Lib Dems are the same. I say that as someone who respects him and thought him hard done by after having the balls to go into power at a thankless point in history, and someone who would much rather we brought back the Con-Lib coalition than the current arrangement.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

welshsaint wrote:
Letting Clegg loose again, is hardly ideal, he is pretty much reviled.

I like him, though I don't know anyone was suggesting that

He’s revelling being in opposition to something. He’s not quite so good at defending what he’s done as selling what he wants to do. He’s not alone in that, but I’d suggest he prefers fighting/moaning from the outside than leading from the inside. Though, as David Laws will tell almost anybody, most Lib Dems are the same. I say that as someone who respects him and thought him hard done by after having the balls to go into power at a thankless point in history, and someone who would much rather we brought back the Con-Lib coalition than the current arrangement.

We'll agree to differ. I see him as a power grabbing opportunist who almost killed of his own party.

welshsaint wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
I like him, though I don't know anyone was suggesting that

He’s revelling being in opposition to something. He’s not quite so good at defending what he’s done as selling what he wants to do. He’s not alone in that, but I’d suggest he prefers fighting/moaning from the outside than leading from the inside. Though, as David Laws will tell almost anybody, most Lib Dems are the same. I say that as someone who respects him and thought him hard done by after having the balls to go into power at a thankless point in history, and someone who would much rather we brought back the Con-Lib coalition than the current arrangement.

We'll agree to differ. I see him as a power grabbing opportunist who almost killed of his own party.

It wasn’t just his decision. As is the way with the Lib Dems every man and his dog had a say before he could form the coalition.

Mellsblue wrote:

welshsaint wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: He’s revelling being in opposition to something. He’s not quite so good at defending what he’s done as selling what he wants to do. He’s not alone in that, but I’d suggest he prefers fighting/moaning from the outside than leading from the inside. Though, as David Laws will tell almost anybody, most Lib Dems are the same. I say that as someone who respects him and thought him hard done by after having the balls to go into power at a thankless point in history, and someone who would much rather we brought back the Con-Lib coalition than the current arrangement.

We'll agree to differ. I see him as a power grabbing opportunist who almost killed of his own party.

It wasn’t just his decision. As is the way with the Lib Dems every man and his dog had a say before he could form the coalition.

I've said before there are a couple of big problems with the Lid Dem volte-face on tuition fees, partly the party leadership got saddled with a policy they never wanted by the party members, and then they went overboard taking credit for the policy when it started doing so well during the election campaign. But it's a more than fair point to then observe it wasn't a Lib Dem government and you can't have everything you stood for in a coalition.

Also it's not the biggest change in policy we've ever seen, in the same election Cameron went from no top down reorganisation of the NHS to in practice vast changes, which is a much bigger change and he was barely tagged for it. And we've seen Corbyn (though not whilst being in power) make a similar shift to the Lib Dems of saying he'd address tuition fees but as he made that suggestion knowing nothing (and it's another way he reminds one of Trump by so often knowing so little of what's actually going on) he's changed it to promising sod all and again taken barely a hit for it.

All that said whilst I don't in practice see why the issue continues to haunt Clegg the way it does I don't deny people are free to choose to care about whatever they want when it comes to their vote, unless Corbyn wins and enacts his dream, then we'll all be a little less free comrades

And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

Mellsblue wrote:

welshsaint wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: He’s revelling being in opposition to something. He’s not quite so good at defending what he’s done as selling what he wants to do. He’s not alone in that, but I’d suggest he prefers fighting/moaning from the outside than leading from the inside. Though, as David Laws will tell almost anybody, most Lib Dems are the same. I say that as someone who respects him and thought him hard done by after having the balls to go into power at a thankless point in history, and someone who would much rather we brought back the Con-Lib coalition than the current arrangement.

We'll agree to differ. I see him as a power grabbing opportunist who almost killed of his own party.

It wasn’t just his decision. As is the way with the Lib Dems every man and his dog had a say before he could form the coalition.

Diggers, show some decorum. You are forgetting to quote yourself.

Digby wrote: It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

Agreed. We’ve not really had enough of these recently.

Digby wrote:And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

I'm sure I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theresa May is basically what would've happened if Nicola Murray had eventually become Prime Minister like she'd had ambitions to.

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

I'm sure I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theresa May is basically what would've happened if Nicola Murray had eventually become Prime Minister like she'd had ambitions to.

I had to google that. Film and TV is not a strong round for me in a pub quiz

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

I'm sure I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theresa May is basically what would've happened if Nicola Murray had eventually become Prime Minister like she'd had ambitions to.

Now let’s practice walking with a box again. The mind boggles, but she was still a better option than Leadsom.

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

They werent thinking at all. It was blindingly freaking obvious what would happen, its getting closer and closer and they still dont care.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

They werent thinking at all. It was blindingly freaking obvious what would happen, its getting closer and closer and they still dont care.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

The Brexiters remind me of the chap from the religious parable who died in the flood, questions the Lord about it and the Lord says but I sent you a boat and a.... essentially they're still not remotely moved from their stance of we're pure and right, and they're ignoring the rising waters

The story of Darren Grimes, AggregateIQ and the 700k gift to Leave isn't going away.

Digby wrote:First there were nearly 60 brexit impact studies then there were not, then there were 58 but they couldn't be discussed, then they were in some way morphed into onto document but supplied heavily redacted which MPs in both leave and remain camps thought an abuse of Parliament, and today David Davies sent a junior minister to explain his failings. Which has left us with David Davies being told he's been summoned himself as he can't hope to get out of his public bollocking.

I suspect we're going to find out the government has a number of documents, and they weren't released not as they're remotely worth classifying but because they're laughably inept.

And we're back to there were none. Which also means when Cabinet took the decision (and aren't we lucky that in taking back control for democracy Parliament was spared such trouble) that Brexit means Brexit and we had to leave the customs union and single market they did so without receiving advice on the economic impact, okay people are sick of listening to experts but this isn't even pretending to be professional

In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

fivepointer wrote:In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

It's like reading a fictional political thriller, only it's too far fetched. Can't wait to see how it ends.