Statistic of the Day

[J Dory]

Sure.

"It just goes to show how misleading statistics can be when you pick a random metric."

Funny, that same line was trotted out when we explained that "poached" PIs playing for the ABs were for the most part born in NZ. At least the NH fans are consistent I guess.

[Stom]

I think you'd generally expect countries to be picking more players who were born elsewhere as the world gets smaller (in terms of people moving around more, not literally).

That NZ have only 4 players born outside NZ (and them all from Fiji, Samoa or Tonga), is more because who would want to move to NZ anyway? Jeez, I mean...your supermarkets have to be the worst supermarkets known to man and that's before we get to what you call beer...or your version of "Marmite". No wonder you all want to leave to come live in London.

Or did, before we decided to fuck ourselves with a rusty rake.

[morepork]

What manner of man gauges his quality of life through supermarkets?

[Stom]

What manner of man gauges his quality of life through supermarkets?

Quality of your produce, my man. If you don't live on your own farm.

Or the quality of your beer, women, Chinese takeaways, and juvenile messageboard idiots.

[morepork]

Sounds like you had quite the holiday. Must have been glad to get back to your "beaches" and "mountains".

[Stones of granite]

Sure.

"It just goes to show how misleading statistics can be when you pick a random metric."

Funny, that same line was trotted out when we explained that "poached" PIs playing for the ABs were for the most part born in NZ. At least the NH fans are consistent I guess.

I find that generally, when having a discussion, consistency is a useful thing to maintain. It makes the conversation a bit awkward when you are all over the place.

Anyway, chill, it's just a bit of fun.

[J Dory]

All intended in fun Stones. In fact, the 180 degree flip on the attitudes towards poaching, while somehow maintaining a moral high ground, it's one of the funniest things that's occurred on this board.

[morepork]

Statistics Fred has gone a bit David Brent.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

[Puja]

Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

I choose not to.

Puja

[zer0]

Will no one tell me who our spaniard is!!

Prepare to be surprised, as it's probably who you'd least expect.

[Mellsblue]

I’ve just googled who the ‘Spaniard’ is. I wouldn’t worry if I were you. The answer just reminded me of the time I got into an argument with a Welshman about the fact I didn’t agree that Simon Shaw was Kenyan, despite him being born in Nairobi, and therefore wasn’t really a poach.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I’ve just googled who the ‘Spaniard’ is. I wouldn’t worry if I were you. The answer just reminded me of the time I got into an argument with a Welshman about the fact I didn’t agree that Simon Shaw was Kenyan, despite him being born in Nairobi, and therefore wasn’t really a poach.

I don't worry. I'm just missing having an Israeli.

St Jordi of Ravers! I should have known.

[Big D]

Before he becomes a full international can we establish whether French born to a Scottish Dad, English educated, Scotland age grade, and now English age grade Cameron Redpath counts as a poach for anyone?

[zer0]

The mothers ethnicological contribution has been suspiciously left out. I sense a trap.

[Lizard]

Remember when selecting players born in another country (or even players with names from another country) was deemed to be a dastardly practice,verging on cheating? Notice how things have changed now that our friends in the North have discovered they can buy their way out of player development problems?

Anyway, time for the annual "6? Nations Poaching Round-Up" summarising the players born in one country but capped for another.*

Working from the squads (original plus replacements) on Wikipedia:

Scotland are easily the champions with their deliberate and successful scouting campaign securing 19 foreign-born squad members (9 ENG, 4 NZ, 3 SA, 2 AUS, 1 USA)

Wales and Italy are ties for silver with 9 apiece. Wales will no doubt argue that their 7 English-born players are a mere feudal hangover, although their 2 Kiwis might be harder to account for. Italy have cast the net a little wider, drawing from 7 other nations, boasting 3 NZers and 1 each from Guinea, Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina, South Africa and Ireland.

England is only a little behind, with 8 foreign-born players, although they ought to receive a hefty handicap having by far the biggest local player pool, and one of the more brazen attitudes to the whole thing. They have 3 NZers, 2 AUS, 2 Fiji and 1 Samoan.

Ireland have 7 players off the boat. 2 NZers, 2 SA, a Frenchman an English and a Spaniard.

About the only thing French rugby has to its recent credit is bringing in a passport requirement for national selection. Thye only have 5 introduced players (and would probably argue its only 4): 2 SA, 1 NZ, 1 Cameroon and 1 New Caledonia (which is technically part of France).

On the other side of the coin, countries supplying players to others are
England: 17
NZ: 15
SA: 8
Aust: 4 (surprisingly low)
Fiji: 2
Arg: 1
France: 1
Germany: 1
Guinea: 1
Ireland: 1
New Caledonia: 1
Samoa: 1
Spain: 1
USA: 1
Zimbabwe: 1

Although you could technically select an English Exiles XV to play an NZ Exiles XV, the match would be hampered somewhat by the fact not a single 6N team has any foreign-born hookers!

And before you ask, for balance, I can report that the NZ October/November 2018 touring squad of 48 included 5 foreign-born players: 2 Tongans, 1 Samoan, 1 Fijian and an Aussie.

*Yes, I'm well aware that there are shades of grey involved e.g. Welsh players with Welsh parents who happened to live nearer an English whelping facility are not the same as Samoans contracted to serve their 3 years and be available which are not the same as the middling Super Rugby Player with a foreign granny who has his Scottish kit mailed to him before he's even got on the plane. Chill out, it's just a bit of fun.

Ultan Dillane I assume is our Frenchman but who's our Spaniard?

Jordi Murphy. Born in Barcelona to Irish parents.

[Lizard]

Undefeated Test Captains (with 10+ tests):

Buck Shelford 1988-90 (NZ) 14
Shalva Sutiashvili 2014-16* (GEO) 14
Kieran Read 2012-16* (NZ) 13
Dave Davies 1921-23 (ENG) 11
Dylan Hartley 2012-16* (ENG) 10

*Unfinished run

Barring injury or banning, it seems unlikely that any of the contenders will maintain their unbeaten status until the end of their careers and will therefore eventually drop off this list even if they temporarily overtake Shelford. Sutiashvili is 32 though, so might not be around too much longer.

Both Shelford and Sutiashvili captained in a draw, leaving Read with the record for most tests (13) as Captain with a 100% win record. The next best on that list is Nicolas Fernandez Miranda with 6 (2002-2005, ARG). No-one else has more than 4.

I believe that Sir Brian Lochore reached a world record 14 consecutive wins as captain before his first loss.

Just to update, Sutiashvili remains on 14 tests as captain undefeated. Read (37 wins, 5 losses) and Hartley (25 wins, 4 losses) have both fallen off the list.

If Read wins the next 4 games he captains (i.e. sweeps TRC2019 v Arg, SA, Aus x2) then his win rate will exceed McCaw's.

[Lizard]

Is NZ going to be short of depth? Fewer All Blacks have made their test debut since the end of RWC2015 than in any other RWC cycle since 1995-99.

Number of All Blacks making test debuts*
2016-19: 31**
2012-2015: 37
2008-2011: 37
2004-07: 33
2000-2003: 45
1995-1999: 31*
1992-1995: 27*
1987-1991: 15*


*These days, no tests are played after a RWC in the same calendar year. In 1987 and 1995, in the days when SH-hosted RWC's finished in June, NZ did play tests later in the same year. There were no debuts in those tests in 1987 but in 1995, Liam Barry and Justin Marshall debuted in November on tour to France. They are allocated to the following cycle e.g. 1995-1999.
**Not including Akira Ioane who is in the foundation squad but uncapped.

[Lizard]

So former Wallabies captain James Horwill is retiring from rugby.

Horwill has:
The second most caps for a lock captaining Australia (16) behind John Eales (55)
The second most tries for a lock for Australia (6) behind Nathan Sharpe (8)
The most caps as a lock captaining Australia at a RWC
The worst success rate as a lock captaining Australia at a RWC*

*4 wins from 6 in 2011, behind Eales (5/5 in 1999), McCall (1/1, 1995) and Mumm (1/1, 2015)

[Lizard]

Owen "Starting" Franks has equaled Salvatore Perugini's record of 83 test caps without ever scoring a try.

Perugini started 53 of his tests, compared to Franks 73, so I would put the NZer ahead on tie-breaker.

Another way to break the tie is to consider that Franks has dodged being at the sharp end of 318 tries scored by his team while was in the playing squad. (He must have worked bloody hard against Japan in 2011 when his team mates got over the line 13 times including Mealamu and Hore). Perugini only had to avoid 147 tries (also working hard to avoid any of the 13 against Portugal in 2006 including scores by both locks and the replacement hooker).

3rd place is J Slipper of Australia who is on 79 tryless caps. There a bunch of active players in the 60s.

Updating this one - Franks has obliterated Perugini's record and now has amassed 106 test caps without once disturbing the whitewash, while watching his team mates dot down no fewer than 432* times! Given his post-RWC departure to Northampton, he has to get through a maximum of 12 more tests, steadfastly refusing to bother the scoreboard, to complete a remarkable career duck.

Slipper slipped into second place with 86 caps before ending his test career in 2016.

The second placed active player (9th overall) is Georgian halfback Giorgi Begadze, on 65 caps. At 33 years old and averaging about 8 caps a season, he's unlikely to beat Franks.

*Including 4 tests in which the All Blacks score 12+ tries.

[Lizard]

This was part of a series about 6N v 3N combined results. I think it needs updating.

About half of England's win came during the early 2000s didn't they?

Yep. 12/25 in a four year period.

By RWC cycle:
1996-1999: 1 win, 2 draws from 14 tests (14.3%)
2000-2003: 12 wins (consecutively) from 13 (92.3%)
2004-2007: 4 from 17 (23.5%)
2008-2011: 2 from 12 (16.7%)
2012-2015: 3 wins, 1 draw from 15 (23.3%)
2016-: 3 from 3 (100%) so far

2016-2019: 9 wins from 12 (75%).

So arguably, the current England team is the second best of the pro-era, by some margin in both directions.

[Lizard]

The record for the most caps against the All Blacks while keeping a 100% win rate is 4. This record is shared by the 8 Springboks who played in all 4 tests of the 1949 white*wash.*** Those 4 losses formed part of NZ's record longest losing streak of 6 tests.**

Since then, two players have reached 3 caps with 3 wins v NZ:
Aussie lock Tim Bowman, who played in all 3 Bledisloe tests during NZ's second-longest losing streak (5 tests) in 1998.
Springbok centre Peter Whipp who played in the 3 wins but not the loss in the 1976 All Blacks tour and retired before the 1981 return tour.


*And I mean "White".
**Note to NZRU: try not to simultaneously tour SA and Australia again, okay?
***The 1949 Boks had no survivors from the previous series v NZ in 1937. Salty du Rand and Chris Koch were the only '49ers to face the All Blacks again and suffering losses (Koch suffered in particular at the hands of Kevin Skinner in 1956)

[Lizard]

Longest home winning streaks:
NZ: 47 (2009-17)
England: 22 (1999-2003)
Wales: 13 (1907-12)
Aust: 13 (1985-87)
Scotland: 13 (1989-1991)
SA: 13 (1994-96)
Ireland: 12 (2016-18)
France: 11 (1975-77)
Arg: 8 (1994-95)
Italy: 7 (1993-1995)

[Lizard]

Most pundits seem to be thinking the All Blacks will extend their unbeaten stretch against the Wallabies to 6 tomorrow. Even a Bledisloe clean sweep this year won’t match the record though. All Black’s longest winning streaks v Aussie:

10 (2008-2010)*
9 (1936-1947)
7 (1967-1974)
7 (1995-1997)
5 (2005-2006)
5* (2015- )

The longest undefeated run was 11, the 1967-74 fun above was ended by a draw which was followed by 3 more wins through to 1978.

The Wallabies have never won more than 3 on the trot v NZ.

Update:
10 (2008-2010)
9 (1936-1947)
7 (1967-1974)
7 (1995-1997)
7 (2015-2017)
5 (2005-2006)

[morepork]

How many more games, against different opposition, would the 5/6N teams have had relative to us dahn sarf? I assume Wales is meant to be 1997 and not 1907? France have had a long time to change hairstyles since their record run.