RugbyRebels

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:44 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:20 am b) doesn’t want to

is the key and immutable point.

Posted: **Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:13 pm**

Wales have poached Josh Hathaway from us by naming him in their senior touring squad. Filthy thieves - why can't they find an actual Welshman to cap?

Puja

Posted: **Mon Jun 03, 2024 7:15 pm**

Not surprising really. He might have played 20s for us, but he’s pretty Welsh.

Posted: **Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:30 pm**

If the trade is Hathaway for IFW I think we're ok with that.

Posted: **Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:05 am**

Boo, I was hoping to get some Welsh people biting on that bait.

Puja

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:33 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:05 am Boo, I was hoping to get some Welsh people biting on that bait.

Puja

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:34 am**

Lots of pundits had Trevor Davison as their pick for the third tighthead after the Saracens demolition, but you'd say he played his way out of that today. Got utterly rinsed by Obano for 20 minutes and then did nothing against a 7-man scrum for the rest of his time.

Barbeary will be fuming - with back row slots at a premium, he'd've wanted to impress and having to go off after 20, for something not his fault, may rule him out of contention. Thought Hill was okay without being brilliant, and that Underhill was utterly superb and confirmed his name in the 7 shirt for England.

Sleightholme needs to be in the England squad, and I wouldn't be surprised if Hendy toured, if only just to give him the experience of the environment. Thought Mitchell was worryingly gash and FSmith didn't stamp his mark on the game - hopefully a learning experience for the latter as he's only young and very inexperienced. Reaffirms him as third of three in the battle for the 10 shirt though.

Puja

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:20 am**

Agree on most of that. Not sure I’d take Hendy though? There are plenty of good back three options and I don’t think Hendy is far enough up the pecking order to tour at this point in time.

Mitchell is prone to the odd poor game, but I’m not unduly concerned. Most of the Saints players were way off their best yesterday and to his credit, Lawes even said so post game. Hopefully JvP puts some positive pressure on Mitchell.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:31 am**

Obano will rue his red card which means he will in all likelihood not be considered to tour. Shame, as he's had a good season and was going well yesterday.
Barbeary missed a chance to impress that may cost him.
Mitchell had a real curate eggs kind of game.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:06 am**

I thought Underhill was superb but I'm not convinced about him at 7 for England ahead of Earl. I'm less convinced about Underhill/Earl at 7/8. Against the top sides, their lack of height virtually guarantees a 'lock-type' at 6. I'm not against that if we had one as good as Lawes. It's all marginal balance stuff but I'd edge towards either Earl or Underhill in the starting back row, not both.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:09 am**

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:20 am Agree on most of that. Not sure I’d take Hendy though? There are plenty of good back three options and I don’t think Hendy is far enough up the pecking order to tour at this point in time.

I would agree with your logic on that, but I have a gut feeling that he's very much a Soft Banana sort of squad-pick - a player with long-term potential and x-factor that he wants to mould, a la Cunningham-South.

Puja

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:09 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:06 am I thought Underhill was superb but I'm not convinced about him at 7 for England ahead of Earl. I'm less convinced about Underhill/Earl at 7/8. Against the top sides, their lack of height virtually guarantees a 'lock-type' at 6. I'm not against that if we had one as good as Lawes. It's all marginal balance stuff but I'd edge towards either Earl or Underhill in the starting back row, not both.

Which 6 is it that is dictating we don’t pick the two best performing backrowers? And in Earl’s case that is best performing only at number 8. Has he had any impact as a 7 yet?

CCS or Hill were considered the front runners, no? Both good lineout options anyway.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:17 am**

Bendy Hendy needs to tour solely for his wholesome post match interviews.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:37 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:09 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:06 am I thought Underhill was superb but I'm not convinced about him at 7 for England ahead of Earl. I'm less convinced about Underhill/Earl at 7/8. Against the top sides, their lack of height virtually guarantees a 'lock-type' at 6. I'm not against that if we had one as good as Lawes. It's all marginal balance stuff but I'd edge towards either Earl or Underhill in the starting back row, not both.
Which 6 is it that is dictating we don’t pick the two best performing backrowers? And in Earl’s case that is best performing only at number 8. Has he had any impact as a 7 yet?

CCS or Hill were considered the front runners, no? Both good lineout options anyway.

Totally agree.

I think CCS is probably front runner, but imagine I imagine Roots is still ahead of Ted Hill.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:44 am**

True. Roots really is the unseen man. I was thinking CCS, Hill, Chessum, Curry etc and never even remembered he existed.

A solid player though and again a decent enough lineout option.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:01 am**

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:37 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:09 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:06 am I thought Underhill was superb but I'm not convinced about him at 7 for England ahead of Earl. I'm less convinced about Underhill/Earl at 7/8. Against the top sides, their lack of height virtually guarantees a 'lock-type' at 6. I'm not against that if we had one as good as Lawes. It's all marginal balance stuff but I'd edge towards either Earl or Underhill in the starting back row, not both.
Which 6 is it that is dictating we don’t pick the two best performing backrowers? And in Earl’s case that is best performing only at number 8. Has he had any impact as a 7 yet?

CCS or Hill were considered the front runners, no? Both good lineout options anyway.
Totally agree.

I think CCS is probably front runner, but imagine I imagine Roots is still ahead of Ted Hill.

I appreciate not every one can sit through the good, the bad and the rugby podcast, especially when Haskell is on, so I've been waiting for an opportunity to drop this tidbit

Jonny May mentioned on this week's episode that Ted Hill is as fast as an international wing.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:06 am**

Mitchell does tend to get flogged at Saints. He played the full 80 in a very physical semi final and then the full 80 in a physical final. He's not a 9 that just passes from the base either, he puts himself in harms way. I think having JvP will be a big bonus for him and England as he can concentrate on putting out 50 mins of quality and then get subbed. Might well mean less collisions which must slow you down when you are giving away between 3 and 5 stone to the opposition backrow.

We are stacked with wingers and fullbacks. I'd have thought leaving Hendy back at Saints so he can have a full pre season would be more beneficial. Sleightholme is surely a certainty to tour, might take a bit for him to adapt to the Jones defence but he'd be third choice behind Freeman and IFW who looked class in the 6N anyway.

Underhill was best player on the pitch yesterday (by a margin) and must start at 7. Earl slots in at 8 and then the rest compete for 6 and bench spot. Probably CCS with an 8 on the bench but Soapy Baldpatch might want the added physicality of Roots, shame Chessum is injured otherwise I think he'd have played there. Lawes said Chessum is the closest thing to him England have available at the moment.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:11 am**

I’ve always been a big Sleightholme fan & would definitely take him on tour. His tackle technique worries me for international rugby a bit though. Needs to stop grabbing shirts like an u14 & start hitting bodies.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 3:04 pm**

Blandy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:01 amI appreciate not every one can sit through the good, the bad and the rugby podcast, especially when Haskell is on, so I've been waiting for an opportunity to drop this tidbit Jonny May mentioned on this week's episode that Ted Hill is as fast as an international wing.

Bath's coaches were saying after his luxury-giraffe try, that he's the fastest player in Bath's squad - which includes an international winger.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:22 pm**

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:06 am
We are stacked with wingers and fullbacks. I'd have thought leaving Hendy back at Saints so he can have a full pre season would be more beneficial.

I’m open minded on this. Think he’s a future international- as I’ve said elsewhere, I think he’s potential in various positions.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:00 pm**

TheNomad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:22 pm
FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:06 am
We are stacked with wingers and fullbacks. I'd have thought leaving Hendy back at Saints so he can have a full pre season would be more beneficial.
I’m open minded on this. Think he’s a future international- as I’ve said elsewhere, I think he’s potential in various positions.

Yeah I'd agree with the future international bit. He's a young lad though and a full pre season with the physical conditioning at Saints could see him more powerful and prepared for next season. Could then push into the AI or 6N squad if he starts the season well.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:28 pm**

FKAS wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 11:06 am Mitchell does tend to get flogged at Saints. He played the full 80 in a very physical semi final and then the full 80 in a physical final. He's not a 9 that just passes from the base either, he puts himself in harms way. I think having JvP will be a big bonus for him and England as he can concentrate on putting out 50 mins of quality and then get subbed. Might well mean less collisions which must slow you down when you are giving away between 3 and 5 stone to the opposition backrow.

We are stacked with wingers and fullbacks. I'd have thought leaving Hendy back at Saints so he can have a full pre season would be more beneficial. Sleightholme is surely a certainty to tour, might take a bit for him to adapt to the Jones defence but he'd be third choice behind Freeman and IFW who looked class in the 6N anyway.

Underhill was best player on the pitch yesterday (by a margin) and must start at 7. Earl slots in at 8 and then the rest compete for 6 and bench spot. Probably CCS with an 8 on the bench but Soapy Baldpatch might want the added physicality of Roots, shame Chessum is injured otherwise I think he'd have played there. Lawes said Chessum is the closest thing to him England have available at the moment.

Mitchell was one of the poor sods that got knocked into next week by Underthunder in that first 20 mins. Not surprised he wasn’t quite at his best after that.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:34 pm**

Puja wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 12:34 am Lots of pundits had Trevor Davison as their pick for the third tighthead after the Saracens demolition, but you'd say he played his way out of that today. Got utterly rinsed by Obano for 20 minutes and then did nothing against a 7-man scrum for the rest of his time.

Puja

Davison’s solid enough, but one game against (let’s face it) Mako doth not an international prop make. Mako’s been the weakest first choice LH in scrummaging terms for many years, so quite why there was sudden enthusiasm for Davison I’ve no idea. Mind, Tim Payne managed to pick up a few caps….
In Davison’s defence, Waller was doing his best not to help out. No surprise given duToit had something to say about things too.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:44 pm**

I don’t think there’s ’sudden enthusiasm’ for Davison really. It’s more a reflection of our limited options at tighthead and it’s probably a straight choice between Davison who has had a good season in a title winning side or Heyes who has been pretty anonymous for Tigers.

Heyes is probably the better long term prospect but today, Davison is probably the better player.

Posted: **Sun Jun 09, 2024 9:05 pm**

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:44 pm I don’t think there’s ’sudden enthusiasm’ for Davison really. It’s more a reflection of our limited options at tighthead and it’s probably a straight choice between Davison who has had a good season in a title winning side or Heyes who has been pretty anonymous for Tigers.

Heyes is probably the better long term prospect but today, Davison is probably the better player.

I'm not sure Heyes is the better long term prospect, tbh. He's 25 now which, while hardly decrepit, is the age at which I'm starting to get annoyed that he's not forcing the 77 year old Dan Cole to take his overdue pension for Leicester.

Either way, we're screwed if we need either of them against NZ.

Puja

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