All Blacks vs Pumas in Sucktown: poll included

[cashead]

All Blacks XXIII named
1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read (C)
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Ryan Crotty
13. Malakai Fekitoa
14. Israel Dagg
15. Ben Smith

16. Codie Taylor
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Charlie Faumuina
19. Luke Romano
20. Ardie Savea
21. TJ Perenara
22. Aaron Cruden
23. Anton Lienert-Brown



Poll runs forever, since Hamilton's suckiness is neverending.

[Lizard]

You mean "Hamilton - Home of the Ranfurly Shield."

Not much to say about the squad. ALB has done well to stay in the side.

[rowan]

This comes as quite a shock to me. During my entire childhood in New Zealand, I lived in a country of basically 3 million people, Auckland was the biggest city with about 600 or 700 K, Wellington & Christchurch were 2nd-equal with about 300 K each, and Dunedin was 4th with only 100 K or so. Everything else was considered a town, though Hamilton had about 80k back then, and I think Palmy had just overtaken Invercargill in 6th place with about 50 or 60K. Napier & Hastings were still different cities of 30 or 40 K each. The national population hasn't really changed that much during the few decades since then, increasing to around 4.5, but the demographics have altered considerably with a huge population drift to the far north, notably Auckland. On this list only Christchurch, Dunedin, Nelson & Invercargill are in the South Island, and of those only Nelson (which is actually parallel with Wellington Harbor, has shown significant growth. Of the North Island cities, only Wellington, Palmy, New Plymouth (just) and Napier-Hastings are south of Lake Taupo - ie in the southern half of the North Is. No wonder they did away with the old inter-island match, which used to be quite a big deal back in the amateur era and even doubled as an All Blacks trial!



1 Auckland 1,454,300 1,086 1,339.1
2 Wellington 398,300 444 897.1 1.
3 Christchurch 381,800 608 628.0
4 Hamilton 224,000 877 255.4 2.
5 Tauranga 130,800 178 734.8
6 Napier-Hastings 129,700 375 345.9 3.
7 Dunedin 117,400 255 460.4
8 Palmerston North 83,500 178 469.1
9 Nelson 64,800 146 443.8
10 Rotorua 56,800 89 638.2
11 New Plymouth 56,300 112 502.7
12 Whangarei 55,400 133 416.5
13 Invercargill 50,300 123 408.9
14 Whanganui 39,400 105 375.2
15 Gisborne 35,700 85 420.0

[rowan]

Even more shocking, a list of stadia capacities. How on earth did they manage to fit a modern RWC into this lot??

Is this right? Has Christchurch still not rebuilt its stadium after the 2011 quake

1 Eden Park 50,000 Auckland Auckland Rugby Football Union, Blues
2 Westpac Stadium 36,500 Wellington Hurricanes, Wellington Rugby Football Union, Wellington Phoenix FC
3 Forsyth Barr Stadium 30,500 Dunedin Highlanders, Otago United
4 FMG Stadium 30,500 Hamilton Waikato Rugby Union, Chiefs, formerly Waikato FC
5 Mt Smart Stadium 30,000 Auckland New Zealand Warriors
6 Rotorua International Stadium 26,000 Rotorua some Bay of Plenty Rugby Union matches
7 Yarrow Stadium 25,500 New Plymouth Taranaki Rugby Football Union, Team Taranaki, some Hurricanes and Chiefs matches
8 Toll Stadium 25,500 Whangarei Northland Rugby Union
9 QBE Stadium 25,000 Albany North Harbour Rugby Union, some Blues matches
10 McLean Park 22,000 Napier Hawke's Bay Rugby Union, Central Districts Stags
11 Rugby Park Stadium 20,000 Invercargill Southland Rugby
12 Trafalgar Park 20,000 Nelson some Tasman Rugby Union matches
13 ASB Baypark Stadium 19,800 Mount Maunganui some Bay of Plenty Rugby Union matches
14 AMI Stadium 18,000 Christchurch Crusaders, Canterbury Rugby Football Union
15 Owen Delany Park 16,000 Taupo some King Country Rugby Union, some Northern Districts Knights matches
16 CET Arena 14,000 Palmerston North Manawatu Turbos, some Hurricanes matches

[zer0]

I remember seeing the hypothetical North Island and South Island teams quite recently. The North Island team was basically the All Blacks minus whoever went to Christchurch Boys.

[zer0]

Indeed, the only South Islanders in the Hamiltron match-day squad are Moody, Retallick, Crotty, B.Smith, Crockett, Romano and Lienert-Brown.

[rowan]

Quick peek at Wiki: last South Island victory over the North during the amateur era was in 1982. There followed a string of one-side victories to the North before it was abandoned as an annual fixture in 1985. However, they did stage the fixture twice more, firstly in 1995, resulting in a 22-66 outcome in Dunedin in 1995, then again in 2012, also in Dunedin (as a fundraiser for the struggling host province), which the South won 34-24 Undoubtedly there were extenuating circumstances on the latter occasion, though I have no idea what... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_vs_ ... nion_match

I remember seeing the hypothetical North Island and South Island teams quite recently. The North Island team was basically the All Blacks minus whoever went to Christchurch Boys.

It started to look that way toward the end of the amateur era too, which is why they abandoned it. There were usually a few guys from Otago Uni as well, but invariably of Hawkes Bay origins. That lower North Island province was the bread-basket of NZ rugby in the pre-WWII era and supplied the backbone of the 'Invincibles.' Norm McKenzie's boys, led by the indomitable Maurice Brownlie in the 2nd row and with George Nepia at fullback, destroyed everything in front of them. But in the shamateur era the Bay was basically a feeder union for Otago.

What really amazes me bout the above data, though, is how much some of the cities have grown, while the stadia is generally less impressive than it was way back when I was a junior.

Incidentally, the population drift toward major centers and warmer climes has been a global phenomenon since the 1970s. The point was reached about a decade ago whereby more than half the world's population were living in cities of over half a million. Istanbul only had 2 million in 1970, for example, but now has 7 or 8 times than much - and quite possibly more...

Indeed, the only South Islanders in the Hamiltron match-day squad are Moody, Retallick, Crotty, B.Smith, Crockett, Romano and Lienert-Brown.

South Island is bigger than England and has a population of 1 million

[Lizard]

Are you looking at Island of origin by birthplace, school or club?

[zer0]

School.

[Lizard]

How many of them would have moved or chosen their school based on rugby?

Anyway, 7/23 (30%) is more than you would expect given the population ratio of 1000000/4500000 (22%)

[rowan]

Island of Origin was mooted at one point toward the end of the amateur era as Aussie league hit our screens. Problem was, they figured out there were more North Is. origin players in the South Island than there were South Is. origin players in the North, so the notion was quickly dispensed with. From memory around that time guys like Greg Cooper, John Timu, Stu Forster & Richard Turner were among Hawkes Bay origin players who moved to Dunedin and made the All Blacks from there.

Sorry, Turner went to North Harbour. Arran Pene went to Dunedin but he was from Waikato, I think...

[rowan]

"Anyway, 7/23 (30%) is more than you would expect given the population ratio of 1000000/4500000 (22%)"

Rugby faces stiff competition from league in Auckland and soccer in Wellington, but in the South Island it's far & away number 1.

[zer0]

How many of them would have moved or chosen their school based on rugby?

Anyway, 7/23 (30%) is more than you would expect given the population ratio of 1000000/4500000 (22%)

From what I know of the players (be it from prior knowledge or from recent search for South Islanders), most went to school in the town/city they were born. Or stayed on the same island, at least. So it's a moot point. Fekitoa and Tamanivalu being the exceptions, of course. Given the increasing prominence of 1st XV rugby, it also makes sense to use schools as most of the development of young players is now done by schools and provincial/franchise academies.

[Lizard]

"Anyway, 7/23 (30%) is more than you would expect given the population ratio of 1000000/4500000 (22%)"

Rugby faces stiff competition from league in Auckland and soccer in Wellington, but in the South Island it's far & away number 1.

I live in Auckland (almost exactly halfway between the Pt Chevalier Pirates RLC and the Ponsonby RFC - both are near the top of their respective comps) and used to live in Dunedin. Although league has more of a presence in Auckland, I wouldn't say it presents "stiff" competition in terms of attracting players. Maybe in South Auckland it might, but I don't really know.

You literally couldn't pay me to live in Wellington. Or watch soccer.

[rowan]

You literally couldn't pay me to live in New Zealand. Or watch NZ soccer.

[Lizard]

Pumas named, Leguizamon out.

Joaquin Tuculet, Matthias Moroni, Matias Orlando, Juan Martin Hernandez, Santiago Cordero, Nicolas Sanchez, Martin Landajo, Facundo Isa, Javier Ortega Desio, Pablo Matera, Matias Alemanno, Guido Petti, Ramiro Herrera, Agustin Creevy (capt), Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro. Reserves: Julian Montoya, Lucas Noguera, Enrique Pieretto, Marcos Kremer, Leonardo Senatore, Tomas Cubelli, Santiago Gonzalez Iglesias, Ramiro Moyano.

[Len]

I remember seeing the hypothetical North Island and South Island teams quite recently. The North Island team was basically the All Blacks minus whoever went to Christchurch Boys.

Elliot Dixon went to St Bedes.

[cashead]

Argues have brought their running boots and Barrett's misplaced his kicking boots. Pumas offering a hell of a lot more than the Wallabies.

[cashead]

They're playing hard, and not having to resort to cheap, low-effort thugby like the Aussies, which puts them several steps above.

[cashead]

And look, none of the Argies have chucked a stray All Black boot into the crowd.

[Len]

Argies going at it. I think they'll be out on their feet soon though.

[cashead]

Fair call by Joubert there.

Also, Argies have scored more points in 40 minutes than the Wallabies could manage in 160.

[Lizard]

Puma's offloading game has been very effective. Oddly, it's All Blacks (Franks, Cane) with the off-the-ball niggle which isn't helping.

Don't know if it's the Aussie whinging about the Teflon All Blacks but Joubert seems to be giving Los Pumas the rub of the green.

Cracking test match so far. Traditionally you would expect the Argies to fade at the 60-65 mark, but times they are a-changin'

Game on!

[Len]

Ardie Savea: The pineapple.

[Lizard]

Argentina are making the All Blacks look ordinary which is a great achievement. It's worrying that Smith is off