RugbyRebels

Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

Some valid points. But it does tend to gloss over some of our glaring deficiencies. We know that traditional Gatlandball can win the 6 Nations. Its worked plenty of times. However, we also know that to give the All Blacks pause for thought, we need to be able to unlock the best defenses in the world and that aspect of our game is poor.

I do think they have a genuine point about Tipuric's position not being the best for bringing that creativity. Just selecting him and hoping that our attack will get better is a bit naive. Its the midfield that we should be thinking more about

I think Graham Price much summed it up.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... s-10888815

"I believe Jamie Roberts is the solution for this Welsh side, but he is also the problem. I thought he would have been man-of-the-match against Ireland last weekend for his defensive work because he was excellent at what he does best. Jamie was actually given the accolade against Scotland and was impressive once more.He took his try well which was complemented with his usual dynamic defensive work. He is central to the ‘Warrenball’ style that is so fundamental to this team under Gatland. But that also troubles me because Wales are not creative. They are dependent on winning the physical contest instead of looking for space and there are no offloads and looking for space."

stud muffin wrote:I think Graham Price much summed it up.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... s-10888815

"I believe Jamie Roberts is the solution for this Welsh side, but he is also the problem. I thought he would have been man-of-the-match against Ireland last weekend for his defensive work because he was excellent at what he does best. Jamie was actually given the accolade against Scotland and was impressive once more.He took his try well which was complemented with his usual dynamic defensive work. He is central to the ‘Warrenball’ style that is so fundamental to this team under Gatland. But that also troubles me because Wales are not creative. They are dependent on winning the physical contest instead of looking for space and there are no offloads and looking for space."

In a nut-shell, thats the problem, although its a bit harsh to focus purely on Roberts when Foxy isn't exactly noted for his creative abilities (tidy player that he is).

So, either we swap tactics part way through the game and bring on the likes of Scott Williams and Tipuric, exchanging the solidity of our defense for a more subtle attack. Or we just crack on as we are. Sadly Scott is injured and Im not sure that there is anyone else who is capable of filling that role. Hook isn't the answer, particularly with the next RWC in mind.

What concerns me is that we rely so much on Roberts for our game plan is that if he suffers a serious injury before the next RWC, then we are in trouble. We need to discover a new option and if that means a split in the game plan at an appropriate point then so be it.

We have some younger centers who are powerful, but not too many who have the sleight of hand and vision of a Henson or Conrad Smith, let alone a BOD. I did wonder if Patchell would do a job in the centers, but he seems determined to play at Fly Half.

Perhaps we are wishing for something that just can't be done. Modern rugby breeds players who are physical and can run set plays, I don't see too many coming through who have subtlety. Perhaps we should concentrate on our off loading game and fixed play attacks, using the bulk of Roberts as an initial carrier or decoy?

Top coach Mark Jones is available. Perhaps he could step in as creative attack coach.

Of course, even tough he's been let go, he'll probably keep on coaching after the whistle for a few weeks before he notices.

Just because our defence is structured and conservative it doesn't mean that our attack needs to be the same. There's no need for our attack to be so turgid and predictable. We've seen how effective it is to bring Roberts and North in at an unexpected angle - we need to be doing this again and again, not a couple of times a game. If Roberts isn't creative/effective enough then he needs to be missed out more often when attacking (then when he is used, it's more of a shock).

Biggar maybe isn't the best 10 to be implementing an aggressive attack. Other than his up and unders, his attacking style is a little conservative. You can see the difference when Sam Davies comes of the bench at the Ospreys - sure, it's a little more risky, but things happen!

But first and foremost I see this as a coaching problem, a failure of tactics, indeed the biggest coaching failure under Gatland.

TibetanBlue wrote:Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

TibetanBlue wrote:Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

The Scottish guy coming in on the angle was always going to catch him. North might have made it, with sheer power, but there's few wingers who would have had the outright pace to make a seventy metre dash and beat the Scottish defence in that situation.

UKHamlet wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

TibetanBlue wrote:Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

The Scottish guy coming in on the angle was always going to catch him. North might have made it, with sheer power, but there's few wingers who would have had the outright pace to make a seventy metre dash and beat the Scottish defence in that situation.

Yeah, I guess I was hoping for some try-scoring genius to kick in. Probably unreasonable! Too many years of watching Shane perform miracles.

Buggaluggs wrote:Top coach Mark Jones is available. Perhaps he could step in as creative attack coach.

Of course, even tough he's been let go, he'll probably keep on coaching after the whistle for a few weeks before he notices.

Lulz


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UKHamlet wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

TibetanBlue wrote:Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

The Scottish guy coming in on the angle was always going to catch him. North might have made it, with sheer power, but there's few wingers who would have had the outright pace to make a seventy metre dash and beat the Scottish defence in that situation.

Mark Jones would have done.

UKHamlet wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

TibetanBlue wrote:Now I'm a fan of Tom James but even I find this line a stretch
"Wales could do with a bit more ‘Tom James’ about them, at times

It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

The Scottish guy coming in on the angle was always going to catch him. North might have made it, with sheer power, but there's few wingers who would have had the outright pace to make a seventy metre dash and beat the Scottish defence in that situation.

Disagree. The Scottish bloke was running the hypotenuse of a triangle and James in a straight line. After the first ten meters of the break I was convinced he would score, but he just didn't have the gas. Amos or Cuthbert would have romped it (hope to see Amos next game, he's a better footballer than James too). Fait play to Taylor who showed geat pace to catch him (and who a scored a good try in the second half too), but an international wing worth his socks would have nailed that one.

Paul Williams likes us, because he is us. Always good value from him.

I'm not disagreeing with the point re: James getting caught, but I have to say it looked to me like he was slow. Maybe it's just his running style, but I never thought he was going to make it.

Also worth remembering that we scored in that attack, so James getting run down didn't actually cost us anything, and he still gets some credit for swinging the pendulum.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Just because our defence is structured and conservative it doesn't mean that our attack needs to be the same. There's no need for our attack to be so turgid and predictable. We've seen how effective it is to bring Roberts and North in at an unexpected angle - we need to be doing this again and again, not a couple of times a game. If Roberts isn't creative/effective enough then he needs to be missed out more often when attacking (then when he is used, it's more of a shock).

Biggar maybe isn't the best 10 to be implementing an aggressive attack. Other than his up and unders, his attacking style is a little conservative. You can see the difference when Sam Davies comes of the bench at the Ospreys - sure, it's a little more risky, but things happen!

But first and foremost I see this as a coaching problem, a failure of tactics, indeed the biggest coaching failure under Gatland.

It's worth remembering how different we looked when Priestland was at his best. I don't recall too many complaints about our attack during the 2011 RWC.

Sandydragon wrote: It's worth remembering how different we looked when Priestland was at his best.

Indeed. What a great couple of months that was...

As much as Biggar s the form 10, he doesn't have that facet of play that Priestland was able to produce, albeit too briefly. With no footballing centre a la Henson, we are very reliant on our fly half.

There are, generally, few good attacking opportunities across a match against a determined organised defence, we had a handfull and scored tries from two, a fairly decent effort I'd have thought. I think we're in tweaking territory rather than wholesale change.

There are, generally, few good attacking opportunities across a match against a determined organised defence, we had a handfull and scored tries from two, a fairly decent effort I'd have thought. I think we're in tweaking territory rather than wholesale change.

Re Tom James' dash for the line, rugby is a 50m sprint game, few can sprint 70m at full pelt so it's no big shock. It also does a disservice to Taylor, who is fast as f##k.

Spiffy wrote:

UKHamlet wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
It was a bit gutting that James didn't quite have the pace to get to the line. When I saw him sprinting off I thought, if there's one thing you want James for, it's a break like this.

The Scottish guy coming in on the angle was always going to catch him. North might have made it, with sheer power, but there's few wingers who would have had the outright pace to make a seventy metre dash and beat the Scottish defence in that situation.

Disagree. The Scottish bloke was running the hypotenuse of a triangle and James in a straight line. After the first ten meters of the break I was convinced he would score, but he just didn't have the gas. Amos or Cuthbert would have romped it (hope to see Amos next game, he's a better footballer than James too). Fait play to Taylor who showed geat pace to catch him (and who a scored a good try in the second half too), but an international wing worth his socks would have nailed that one.

Billyfish wrote:Re Tom James' dash for the line, rugby is a 50m sprint game, few can sprint 70m at full pelt so it's no big shock. It also does a disservice to Taylor, who is fast as f##k.

..... except in cases like this. I would have expected an average international wing to score in that situation. Will James hold his place on the team?

Spiffy wrote:

Billyfish wrote:Re Tom James' dash for the line, rugby is a 50m sprint game, few can sprint 70m at full pelt so it's no big shock. It also does a disservice to Taylor, who is fast as f##k.

..... except in cases like this. I would have expected an average international wing to score in that situation. Will James hold his place on the team?

I would expect an international hooker to score from there

Spiffy wrote:

Billyfish wrote:Re Tom James' dash for the line, rugby is a 50m sprint game, few can sprint 70m at full pelt so it's no big shock. It also does a disservice to Taylor, who is fast as f##k.

..... except in cases like this. I would have expected an average international wing to score in that situation. Will James hold his place on the team?

I'd bet on Halfpenny against most international wings in that situation, especially with a ten to fifteen metre starting advantage.