All blacks seek Warm-up

[rowan]

I've been saying for a long time the All Blacks ought to play a Pacific Island team as their annual test season warm-up. How about Fiji in Suva? They have NEVER played an official test there, but escaped with a lucky 14-13 win back in the mid-70s once in what was for some obscure reason not regarded as an official test.

All Blacks head coach Steve Hansen and selector Grant Fox have both stated that the world champions will need some sort of warm-up fixture ahead of facing the British and Irish Lions.

Whereas the Lions will have faced the New Zealand Barbarians, Blues, Crusaders, Highlanders, Maori All Blacks and Chiefs before the first Test, New Zealand are not scheduled to play any warm-up matches.

Back in 2005 the All Blacks defeated Fiji 91-0 a fortnight before taking on the Lions in the first Test, going on to win the series 3-0.

Hansen, then an assistant to Graham Henry, now hopes to schedule a new fixture 12 years later.

"We'll make that decision over the next couple of weeks whether we're going to really push that. We either play an opposition or we play ourselves, but we'll have to do something," Hansen told the Sunday Star Times.

Referencing the build-up in 2005, Hansen said: "We got our selections right, and we got our preparation right.. We had a bit more time so we could play that game against Fiji. Those things helped.

"Selection and preparation will be the key again and if we get those right we give ourselves a good chance of starting well."

Fox went further, describing the situation as "critical" ahead of the much anticipated series.

"We are vulnerable in that first game and that's natural because we haven't had any time together," he said.

"The Lions will have had six games, and some good, tough preparation. We will have had two weeks of assembly time plus a wee hitout of some description.

"It's critical, and it's proved critical the last few years for us. We know a hitout is more beneficial than not having one."

[Len]

England?

[rowan]

Suspect that was tongue-in-cheek, but they'll be looking for something a tad lighter to blow out the cobwebs. I've never understood why NZ & Aussie don't engage their Pacific Islands counterparts regularly at that time of year and kill two birds with one stone. This is when they're at their most vulnerable (notwithstanding the end-of-season AIs). Maybe include Japan in a sort of rotating schedule that would see each of the islands plus the Blossoms face either NZ or Australia once every second year?

[Lizard]

I agree that NZ should play the islands more but don't be silly about history. The reason NZ v Fiji in 1974 wasn't a test was because it was played 3 days after the last test of a 12 match tour of Australia.

[cashead]

That plus it wasn't unusual for games against some international sides seen as "lesser" to not be considered test matches.

[rowan]

That plus it wasn't unusual for games against some international sides seen as "lesser" to not be considered test matches.

Yes, I think we've been over this before, and the NZ team that fronted up was close to full strength. The main reason it wasn't an official test is probably that anyone outside the foundation 8 wasn't considered 'worthy' in those times and thus denied official test match opposition status. The Lions' loss in Suva in 77 wasn't considered an official test either, but there were certainly no excuses there.

[zer0]

Playing a pre-Lions match outside of NZ would be ridiculous. Especially in the islands where it will likely be disgustingly humid and not at all like NZ's winter conditions. Plus there's the whole travel thing. No. Regardless of who the opposition is, the match will have to be in NZ.

[rowan]

Agree with that. I'd still like to see more teams playing in Suva though. 25K capacity stadium and they'll fill that out every time, and the coup is over, after all, so no one can use that excuse any more. At least we know the 6 Nations will be going to the islands regularly once the new calendar kicks in, but how about their own neighbors - NZ & Australia. An early season warm-up is the ideal time for such encounters to happen . . .

[Lizard]

I would definitely travel to Fiji for an All Blacks test. I'll actually be there during the Lions tour this year (after attending the Blues and Chiefs games, and before going to the 3rd test.)

[rowan]

Manu Samoa is likely to feature in a Pacific Island rugby double header, reports say.

The Weekend Herald has reported that the All Blacks is close to securing a test with Samoa and packaging it alongside Tonga's clash with Wales.

A deal hasn't yet been agreed but the Weekend Herald understands there is growing confidence among all parties that on Friday, June 16, the All Blacks will play Samoa in Auckland - with Tonga versus Wales as the curtain raiser.

The All Blacks are keen to play a meaningful contest before the first test against the Lions on June 24. They are conscious the Lions will have had six tough tour games before that first test, while the All Blacks will have had two weeks of training, but no opportunity to play.

History shows that the All Blacks are often vulnerable in the first test of the season - beset by inevitable rustiness and lack of cohesion.

In 2014, they were lucky to beat England in their first test of the year, as they were in 2013, when one bounce of the ball probably denied France a victory.

Given the prominence of the Lions series and the All Blacks' desire to win it, they are not prepared to go into that first test undercooked. Head coach Steve Hansen says they need a game under their belts to sharpen their instincts and work through their combinations and game plan.

http://www.sobserver.ws/en/01_04_2017/s ... ckland.htm

[rowan]

Wouldn't it be great if the Sunwolves moved to the Aussie conference and Australia committed to meeting Japan and Fiji (who are set to join their domestic competition) in alternate years, while NZ made a similar commitment to Samoa & Tonga (using them as warm-up opposition for the summer tours)?!

[rowan]

Happy days Chairman of the Samoa Rugby Union Tuilaepa Sa'ilele Malielegaoi (who runs the government in his spare time) confirms that talks are underway for a warm-up test before the Lions series, possibly as a double-header with Wales v Tonga on the undercard.

Prime Minister Tuilaepa Sa’ilele Malielegaoi has confirmed negotiations between the Samoa Rugby Union and the New Zealand Rugby Union about a possible test match between Manu Samoa and the All Blacks.

“The Samoa Rugby Union has made a proposal that they are now negotiating with the All Blacks whether it is possible to have another game with the All Blacks,” Tuilaepa told the media earlier this week.

“This is during the time of the Independence Celebration in Samoa. So it’s is something we all should look forward to.”

When Tuilaepa, who is also the Chairman of the Samoa Rugby Union, spoke about the plan, he indicated that it could be hosted in Samoa.

But new reports emerged yesterday that Manu Samoa is likely to feature in a Pacific Island rugby double header in New Zealand.

The Weekend Herald reported that the All Blacks is close to securing a test with Samoa and packaging it alongside Tonga's clash with Wales.

A deal hasn't yet been agreed but the Weekend Herald understands there is growing confidence among all parties that on Friday, June 16, the All Blacks will play Samoa in Auckland - with Tonga versus Wales as the curtain raiser.

The All Blacks are keen to play a meaningful contest before the first test against the Lions on June 24.

They are conscious the Lions will have had six tough tour games before that first test, while the All Blacks will have had two weeks of training, but no opportunity to play.

History shows that the All Blacks are often vulnerable in the first test of the season - beset by inevitable rustiness and lack of cohesion.

In 2014, they were lucky to beat England in their first test of the year, as they were in 2013, when one bounce of the ball probably denied France a victory.

Given the prominence of the Lions series and the All Blacks' desire to win it, they are not prepared to go into that first test undercooked. Head coach Steve Hansen says they need a game under their belts to sharpen their instincts and work through their combinations and game plan.

In 2005, the last time the Lions were here, the All Blacks played Fiji at North Harbour Stadium and while they ran up a cricket score against limited opposition, it was nonetheless highly beneficial to have that contest.

So for the past month or so, New Zealand Rugby has been looking for a suitable opponent and is now settling on Samoa.

Samoa are understood to be keen to play, as they will already be in camp ahead of their June test programme. Their best players will be available and the opportunity to take on the All Blacks is never one any country wants to turn down.

The only significant unknown at this stage is the venue. Eden Park is not likely to be used, as it is already scheduled to host three Lions games - two tests and their match against the Blues.

North Harbour Stadium is thought to be the most likely venue, although originally, when Tonga were told by World Rugby some weeks ago that their ground in Nuku'alofa wasn't test standard and they needed to shift the match against Wales to Auckland, Mt Smart and Pukekohe were being considered.

With the All Blacks now potentially part of the programme, it's difficult to see Pukekohe being given the green light, and the greater size, and therefore income potential, of North Harbour, where the All Blacks have previously played, possibly makes it the favourite.

Because a venue has not yet been confirmed and the financial arrangements are yet to be worked, through, New Zealand Rugby chief executive Steve Tew could only tell the Weekend Herald: "The All Blacks have indicated they would like a hit-out before the DHL NZ Lions Series, and we're looking at a number of options, but nothing is off the table or confirmed as yet."

http://www.sobserver.ws/en/02_04_2017/l ... -talks.htm

[rowan]

Confirmed:


New Zealand Rugby have confirmed the All Blacks will play Samoa in a one-off warm-up test in Auckland before the British and Irish Lions tour, with Tonga to play Wales before hand in a Pacific double-header.


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/330 ... play-samoa

[Lizard]

So that's 3 All Blacks tests and 1 other test at Eden Park. That's a bit unfair on the rest of the country. I presume the theory is that visiting Lions fans will fill the ground?

[zer0]

So that's 3 All Blacks tests and 1 other test at Eden Park. That's a bit unfair on the rest of the country. I presume the theory is that visiting Lions fans will fill the ground?

The Welsh contingent along with Tongan and Samoan fans, I'd imagine. Especially as it will be at Eden Park and not Albany, as I had originally assumed. That being the case, I'll consider going to this one, depending on the ticket prices.

[rowan]

I can see the logic of staging a lot of tests in Auckland since the city has about a third of the national population. Of course, I'm old enough to recall when tests were spread around the country more, but the demographics have changed considerably since then and New Zealand has gone from being a country of a few major centers to one with one major center.

But I don't see the logic in the double-header. It might add a few thousand to the NZ-Samoa game, particularly from within the local Tongan community, but if they'd staged it on another day it probably would have got between 15 & 20K on its own - maybe more. No way a test match involving a tier 1 nation should be a curtain-raiser.

[Lizard]

It's a tricky one. The Tonga v Wales match was supposed to be in Nuku'alofa but the facilities there were deemed of insufficient quality (which is a joke given the fuckin' horrible surface served up year after year at the Millennium Stadium). NZ was the obvious choice for neutral venue but the weekend was fixed given Wales' other tour dates. The NZRU is presumably taking a cut but has done both teams a favour hosting. The All Blacks obviously need a warm up for the Lions which has to be the same weekend. It would be nuts of the NZRU to put another test match on in competition with the All Blacks or the Maori v Lions match on the Saturday. So a double-header kind of makes sense.

It's a shame for the likes of Hamilton, Napier or New Plymouth (or Christchurch) who might usually expect to host a home test against Samoa.

Is this the first neutral test staged in NZ outside of a World Cup?

[rowan]

I'd be quite happy to see Samoa and Tonga playing most of their tests against tier 1 nations in Auckland, to be honest. It's the biggest Polynesian city in the word and the diaspora is almost as big as the population back in the islands. They just don't have the stadiums or resources to stage these fixtures, sadly. & why incur a huge loss by staging games in Apia and Nuku when you'll likely make a profit by staging them in Auckland? Similarly, I'd be quite happy to see the All Blacks play most of their games in Auckland, with just one each in Wellington & Christchurch most years. Those are reasonable sized cities that will pack a big stadium for a test match, and geographically represent central and southern New Zealand respectively. Hamilton's just a big town and is only an hour's drive from Auckland, and the rest is just farmsville. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't test rugby always confined to Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin in the pre-World Cup era? & Dunedin was the 4th biggest city back then, whereas today I think it's just about dropped out of the top 10. Give it another 30 years or so, and Auckland could quite conceivably hold the majority of the nation's population.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

So that's 3 All Blacks tests and 1 other test at Eden Park. That's a bit unfair on the rest of the country. I presume the theory is that visiting Lions fans will fill the ground?

Presumably the Samoans for the double header.

[Guwuffle]

Is this the first neutral test staged in NZ outside of a World Cup?

Samoa v Scotland 2004 was in Wellington. Quick Statsguru query says that's it outside of tournaments though (World, FORU and Oceania Cups).

Whoops - just seen you've clearly also looked it up for the Statistic of the Day thread.

[Lizard]

Indeed I have!

I have no recollection of that Scotland game, oddly.

[rowan]

Somehow I don't think they'll be hell-bent on racking up a 3-digit score, like they were in that inaugural encounter back in 87, and also at the 3rd RWC in 95.

The world champion All Blacks will face Japan in a test match next year before heading to Europe for their end of season tour in an effort to boost interest ahead of the 2019 Rugby World Cup in the country on Nov. 3, a match that could be followed by a heavyweight clash against England at Twickenham between two sides vying for favouritism at the next World Cup.

http://www.euronews.com/2017/05/17/all- ... urope-trip

[cashead]

Oh do feel free to go fuck yourself with that bullshit. God fucking forbid that they play a test match in the patch of a tier 3 team as part of a promotional push for an upcoming major tournament while interest in the sport is still high. We can't be having that now, can we?

[rowan]

You've read way too much into my comment, Cashead. I'm very pleased this match has been arranged. Kudos to them. Just thinking aloud on the possible scoreline, however. I recall the first time they played very well, and also their clash at RWCIII, and am just doubful the All Blacks would be doing Japan too much of a favor if they humiliate them to the same extent. If that leads you to a rescission of such fixtures, then you have a wild imagination...

[zer0]

Somehow I don't think they'll be hell-bent on racking up a 3-digit score, like they were in that inaugural encounter back in 87, and also at the 3rd RWC in 95.

You've read way too much into my comment, Cashead. I'm very pleased this match has been arranged. Kudos to them. Just thinking aloud on the possible scoreline, however. I recall the first time they played very well, and also their clash at RWCIII, and am just doubful the All Blacks would be doing Japan too much of a favor if they humiliate them to the same extent. If that leads you to a rescission of such fixtures, then you have a wild imagination...

Memory can't be that good given that the All Blacks didn't play Japan in 1987. But if you are going to bring up results, then why ignore the most recent result that was, unlike the first two, played in Japan?