RugbyRebels

Could be an interesting match this one. Assuming that the top 4 is Wasps, Exeter/Saracens, and Leicester, then that means the following of the Arg squad are definitely available:

Hartley
Hill
Collier
Ewels
Curry
Curry
Robshaw
Wood
Care
Ford
James
Mallinder
Marchant
Cokanasiga
May
Solomona
Brown

Wasps will beat Leicester, so that gives us back Genge, but loses Mullan, Launch, Haskell and Hughes. Exeter vs Saracens is harder to judge, and is a trade off between losing Williams, LCD, Maunder and Slade or Isiekwe, Lozowski and Earle.

Frankly, from an England perspective, I'd prefer to see Wasps vs Sarries. This is the game where the youngsters will get a go and the idea of Maunder/Ford/Slade makes me feel funny in my pants. Plus, Sarries might release Isiekwe and Earle anyway depending on if they have a full squad to pick from.

I'd be keen on: Genge, LCD, Williams, Ewels, Isiekwe, Curry, Curry, Robshaw, Maunder, Ford, Cokanasiga, Slade, Marchant, Earle, Mallinder.

One thing to note is that we will need to have additional callups for this game. One of Genge and Mullan will be missing, so this could be a last chance Rapava-Ruskin to regain his English qualification before the terms change.

Puja

Agree with all of that. Although I'd love to see Exeter win the league, sorry, title, I don't see it.

Especially Robshaw at 8 just for lols.

Mikey Brown wrote:Agree with all of that. Although I'd love to see Exeter win the league, sorry, title, I don't see it.

Especially Robshaw at 8 just for lols.

The other option lurking is Wood...

Puja

If Quins are in a playoff for the Champions Cup, it will take place that weekend so you'd have to remove Robshaw, Brown, Care, Marchant and Collier!

Bloggs wrote:If Quins are in a playoff for the Champions Cup, it will take place that weekend so you'd have to remove Robshaw, Brown, Care, Marchant and Collier!

Hadn't realised that! Mind, if Saints drop into 7th,then we'd be guaranteed not to have Hartley and Wood, which I think most people would agree was worth losing Hill and Mallinder.

Puja

Yes. That option please!

Can anyone remind me why they plan it so everything is on the same weekend?

Renniks wrote:Can anyone remind me why they plan it so everything is on the same weekend?

Cause it makes sense for all the European leagues to have their playoffs that weekend as it fits in nicely with their league schedule. And the RFU have spotted a free Sunday and decided that it's perfect to crowbar in another money-maker game into.

Mind, at least this year it's back to being a Barbarians game, rather than the stupid extra international vs Wales that we had last year.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:Can anyone remind me why they plan it so everything is on the same weekend?

Cause it makes sense for all the European leagues to have their playoffs that weekend as it fits in nicely with their league schedule. And the RFU have spotted a free Sunday and decided that it's perfect to crowbar in another money-maker game into.

Mind, at least this year it's back to being a Barbarians game, rather than the stupid extra international vs Wales that we had last year.

Puja

This, all of this.

But aren't tours usually 3 games, so why not push it all back a week?

Won't Isiekwe be available regardless? He's Sarries sixth choice locks or something so doubt he will be required

Renniks wrote:But aren't tours usually 3 games, so why not push it all back a week?

I'd imagine that that's because it's a set and regular event in the calendar, so keeping it the same won't involve changing any police arranagements, permits with the locals, will keep the double-header of the final and then the Barbarians game that some fans do and I would imagine it's cheaper to have Twickenham open and staffed for two consecutive days rather than opening it twice a week apart.

Basically it makes a lot of sense for just about everyone except in terms of what team that we're able to put onto the park. And for a friendly runaround against the Barbarians, I'm not as bothered about that. The disruption means that a few faces get gametime that otherwise wouldn't've done and it's a low-pressure environment.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Renniks wrote:Can anyone remind me why they plan it so everything is on the same weekend?

Cause it makes sense for all the European leagues to have their playoffs that weekend as it fits in nicely with their league schedule. And the RFU have spotted a free Sunday and decided that it's perfect to crowbar in another money-maker game into.

Mind, at least this year it's back to being a Barbarians game, rather than the stupid extra international vs Wales that we had last year.

Puja

I don't know, I thought that game vs Wales turned out to be an excellent idea in the end...



Also, didn't realise Rapava-Ruskin was on the verge of losing international eligibility for the country he's lived in most of his life. Amazeballs. Maybe they should add a clause that 10 years of continuous residency gives you permanent eligibility, I remember when the Irish prop Ruadhri Murphy found out that being raised an Australian citizen meant nothing for rugby purposes if you weren't born there or of Australian ancestry, was quite funny but also a bit stupid.

Of course, England could just go and cap VRR now and save the bother. They'll probably go and play Nathan Catt though instead.

Puja wrote:

Bloggs wrote:If Quins are in a playoff for the Champions Cup, it will take place that weekend so you'd have to remove Robshaw, Brown, Care, Marchant and Collier!

Hadn't realised that! Mind, if Saints drop into 7th,then we'd be guaranteed not to have Hartley and Wood, which I think most people would agree was worth losing Hill and Mallinder.

Puja

Exactly. This is a clear reason for lots of bias towards Quins at the end of the season, and just let us finish 6th. Short term pain of even more Kingston/Tofty but it'll be worth it

Actually I think no Brown and Care would be even more valuable for England right now...

I can't see any new residency rules effecting players who've already done 3 years and 'earned' their eligibility.

bitts wrote:Won't Isiekwe be available regardless? He's Sarries sixth choice locks or something so doubt he will be required

Yeah, you'd have thought Sarries would release him and then call him back if required

On Puja's suggested team - feel that back row looks very unbalanced, no line out specialist or big carrying 8. I'd quite like one of those involved (a one game call up for Josh Beaumont would solve both issues) providing the line out specialist isn't Tom Wood.

Think the worst case scenario for this match would be a Wasps-Exeter final with Quins on a play-off (and Ospreys in the Pro 12 final, but I forget how likely that is right now - not very iirc). That would leave us with a starting tight five with no subs, no Haskshaw, no 8, no scrum-halves, no Slade and Marchant, and no Vice-Captain Angry.

But we'd still have Tom Wood.

Kinda want this to happen now just to see what Jones would do.

Loads of possible permutations here, so will be interesting whatever happens. It could definitely be a good opportunity to give the Currys/Underhill a first, risk-free run out.

Re. VRR, would a Barbarians game make any difference considering it's a 'no-cap' game?

On the subject of the 'Old Mutual' game, why can't we make it a capped game versus a Tier 2 nation? I'd much rather see a full-blooded test match against Georgia than a nothing game against the Barbarians ... surely would be more valuable experience for the players too?

Scrumhead wrote: On the subject of the 'Old Mutual' game, why can't we make it a capped game versus a Tier 2 nation? I'd much rather see a full-blooded test match against Georgia than a nothing game against the Barbarians ... surely would be more valuable experience for the players too?

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess it's because of the money?

Love the idea though, for many reasons.

Timbo wrote:I can't see any new residency rules effecting players who've already done 3 years and 'earned' their eligibility.

It doesn't work like that. You have to have 3 years residency immediately preceding your selection.

Scrumhead wrote:Re. VRR, would a Barbarians game make any difference considering it's a 'no-cap' game?

It will, as it's still a representative game. Just like an A game would qualify him without a cap.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Timbo wrote:I can't see any new residency rules effecting players who've already done 3 years and 'earned' their eligibility.

It doesn't work like that. You have to have 3 years residency immediately preceding your selection.

I think the point he was making was that VRR has now done his 3 years, but if he doesn't get selected this summer, then it's likely to go up to 5 years, which seems a bit mean considering he's lived here since he was three apart from a year in France.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Re. VRR, would a Barbarians game make any difference considering it's a 'no-cap' game?

It will, as it's still a representative game. Just like an A game would qualify him without a cap.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Timbo wrote:I can't see any new residency rules effecting players who've already done 3 years and 'earned' their eligibility.

It doesn't work like that. You have to have 3 years residency immediately preceding your selection.

I think the point he was making was that VRR has now done his 3 years, but if he doesn't get selected this summer, then it's likely to go up to 5 years, which seems a bit mean considering he's lived here since he was three apart from a year in France.

Puja

I think you are wrong about the Barbarians game actually. Not all representative games capture a player.

On VRR, I can't reconcile the point you are making to his words, but I do see that he might be suggesting some transitional provisions which is possible but seems unlikely.

Scrumhead wrote: On the subject of the 'Old Mutual' game, why can't we make it a capped game versus a Tier 2 nation? I'd much rather see a full-blooded test match against Georgia than a nothing game against the Barbarians ... surely would be more valuable experience for the players too?

I'm not sure the bolded holds up. Our players play a lot of full blooded physical games but they don't play as many teams as skilled and reckless as the Baabaas. Plus the Barbarians can beat the average England XV played against them. If Georgia are at the same level as Italy, then they can't beat England at Twickenham. The game would be a tough exercise in tight play followed by "How many tries can we score". The Barbarians will still leak a bunch of tries but will make them work in defence and play at tempo.

I'm not against playing games against Georgia but I doubt it would be a better experience for the players.

Twenty nine players have assembled in Pennyhill Park on Sunday ahead of England’s match against the Barbarians next Sunday (28 May) at Twickenham Stadium.

The group includes 20 uncapped players with head coach Eddie Jones set to name his matchday 23 to face the Barbarians on Thursday.

Following the Old Mutual Wealth Cup fixture England then face Argentina twice in June.

Forwards (17)

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Rob Buchanan (Harlequins), Will Collier (Harlequins), Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Bristol), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Ross Harrison (Sale Sharks), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors), Will Spencer (Worcester Warriors), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs (12)

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Nathan Earle (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Mike Haley (Sale Sharks), Sam James (Sale Sharks), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Ryan Mills (Worcester Warriors), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Marland Yarde (Harlequins).