RugbyRebels

With O'Connor seemingly overseeing a bit of a clearout at Leicester it made me think about who I'd like to lose at Quins given the chance of engineering a clearout.

In fairness to Kingston, he has got rid of some of the deadwood already but I think we could/should lose the following:

Joe Gray - can be good on his day but very injury prone and never really established himself as first choice. Never likely to either ...

Charlie Matthews - deeply average. The thought that we kept him over Launchbury is a particularly painful one ...

Ruaridh Jackson - I'm not sure why we ever signed him? He was never going to be a first choice and is just another thoroughly average waste of money.

Winston Stanley - willing but simply not up to standard. A championship player IMO.

Jamie Roberts - his performances in a Quins shirt have improved over time but he just doesn't offer a return on investment.

How about your club?

Tandy.

Scrumhead wrote:With O'Connor seemingly overseeing a bit of a clearout at Leicester it made me think about who I'd like to lose at Quins given the chance of engineering a clearout.

In fairness to Kingston, he has got rid of some of the deadwood already but I think we could/should lose the following:

Joe Gray - can be good on his day but very injury prone and never really established himself as first choice. Never likely to either ...

Charlie Matthews - deeply average. The thought that we kept him over Launchbury is a particularly painful one ...

Ruaridh Jackson - I'm not sure why we ever signed him? He was never going to be a first choice and is just another thoroughly average waste of money.

Winston Stanley - willing but simply not up to standard. A championship player IMO.

Jamie Roberts - his performances in a Quins shirt have improved over time but he just doesn't offer a return on investment.

How about your club?

I'm not sure about Gray or Matthews. Neither will be on big money, and as 3rd choice, both are fine.

But I would add in Luamanu, Naoupu, Alofa Alofa and even Visser if we can sign someone else.

TBH, I don't see the point of signing average journeymen when we have such a productive academy. Fill those spots with academy grads and add in top quality to the team elsewhere.

We signed Jackson because of that game for Wasps v Toulon where he tore them up. Did you see it? Problem is those performances only come round pretty scarcely. But yes, it's looking like another failure right now.

Cutting Gray wouldn't be a massive priority to me unless we're bringing in somebody to push ahead of Buchanan and Ward.

Oh gods, so many. But with our academy working sporadically, if at all, then it's a question of who would replace them.

Players who are currently taking up space include Cilliers, Rizzo, Fitzgerald, Croft, O'Connor, Tait, Brady, Smith and Pietersen. Some of those I hope will be revitalised by a new management. Others I hope we are looking to replace. The rest are necessary evils given our lack of home grown quality depth.

Puja

Puja wrote:Oh gods, so many. But with our academy working sporadically, if at all, then it's a question of who would replace them.

Players who are currently taking up space include Cilliers, Rizzo, Fitzgerald, Croft, O'Connor, Tait, Brady, Smith and Pietersen. Some of those I hope will be revitalised by a new management. Others I hope we are looking to replace. The rest are necessary evils given our lack of home grown quality depth.

Puja

TBF O'Connor did finish the season with the most turnovers in the league and is a handy enough 8 and Rizzo was excellent as a 3rd choice loose head this season.

Surpised you didn't say Kitto what with Ben White coming up.

Stom wrote:I'm not sure about Gray or Matthews. Neither will be on big money, and as 3rd choice, both are fine.

But I would add in Luamanu, Naoupu, Alofa Alofa and even Visser if we can sign someone else.

TBH, I don't see the point of signing average journeymen when we have such a productive academy. Fill those spots with academy grads and add in top quality to the team elsewhere.

Obviously I'd be looking to replace anyone in my clearout with a better alternative. Gray is OK as a third choice but the trouble with Matthews is that he's often the first choice to partner Horwill which is insane!

The only reason Naoupu didn't make my list is because he's already one of our confirmed leavers but I actually think Luamanu is decent. He wouldn't be a first choice by any means but he's fine as a reserve.

I'm on the fence re. Alofa. I think he's on borrowed time anyway with Aspland-Robinson and Ibitoye due to graduate from the academy and Mikalcius presumably returning from Hartpury.

I'd always favour academy grads over journeymen but there are normally only 1-2 per season who are genuinely up to it, which isn't a consistent enough return to take away the need for prem standard squad filler. In the last couple of years we've only really had Sloan. That said, others I mentioned above will be a good intake along with possibly Archie White and Charlie Piper so we're doing better than most.

Ben Morgan, 12T, Galarza, Motu'u.

Some great front row talent from the academy currently playing in the U20's WC, including two hookers. Morgan just doesn't do it, for all his physical attributes and occasional good game, he goes missing too often. Same applies to Galarza. 12T is yesterday's man, I expect our first choice centre pairing next season to be Scott and Trinder, with Williams, Atkinson and Marshall covering.

I reckon lots of clubs would take Morgan if he was available. In fairness to him, I thought he had his most consistent season in 16/17.

Would take Morgan at Tigers.

36 should never have left Tigers IMO, where he was actually played as a second playmaker rather than the main ball carrier which he did at Glous.

Tigersman wrote:

Puja wrote:Oh gods, so many. But with our academy working sporadically, if at all, then it's a question of who would replace them.

Players who are currently taking up space include Cilliers, Rizzo, Fitzgerald, Croft, O'Connor, Tait, Brady, Smith and Pietersen. Some of those I hope will be revitalised by a new management. Others I hope we are looking to replace. The rest are necessary evils given our lack of home grown quality depth.

Puja

TBF O'Connor did finish the season with the most turnovers in the league and is a handy enough 8 and Rizzo was excellent as a 3rd choice loose head this season.

Surpised you didn't say Kitto what with Ben White coming up.

I had actually forgotten that Kitto existed and was quite comfortable with that fact.

Puja

For Bath, I'd only really be tsalking those squad filler players, who' I'm sure we would clear out if we could get an upgrade on a comparable salary.
I think it also helps to see the squad as it stands:


Sad as it is to say, it looks like KPN will never really be a Prem quality THP, but he's fine as 4th choice, I just don't like the thought of him as 2nd or 3rd choice. With Knight coming in mid-season he is now 4th choice, but we've got 2 34rd choice THPs sharing 2nd and 3rd choice; so... one of Knight or Lahiff to be upgraded.
That's about it in the pack; though I'd like a 5th choice senior lock to cover when Charteris is away; though Douglas is an okay option.

Darren Allinson is a complete waste of space, I can only hope we pay him a pittance - looks like he must have been out of his depth when he was playing for LWelsh. If we could replace Allinson with a bench-sitter and viable starter, then I'd be happy, otherwise I'd look closely at Cook - local lad and academy graduate, but has had 1 good season in the last 5; and at 26 should be showing more consistency.
On the wings we have Wilson, Williams and Brew who are all much of a muchness quality-wise; I'd happily get rid of 2 of them to allow us an extra centre (not that we've spent Freuan's salary yet)

Scrumhead wrote:

Stom wrote:I'm not sure about Gray or Matthews. Neither will be on big money, and as 3rd choice, both are fine.

But I would add in Luamanu, Naoupu, Alofa Alofa and even Visser if we can sign someone else.

TBH, I don't see the point of signing average journeymen when we have such a productive academy. Fill those spots with academy grads and add in top quality to the team elsewhere.

Obviously I'd be looking to replace anyone in my clearout with a better alternative. Gray is OK as a third choice but the trouble with Matthews is that he's often the first choice to partner Horwill which is insane!

The only reason Naoupu didn't make my list is because he's already one of our confirmed leavers but I actually think Luamanu is decent. He wouldn't be a first choice by any means but he's fine as a reserve.

I'm on the fence re. Alofa. I think he's on borrowed time anyway with Aspland-Robinson and Ibitoye due to graduate from the academy and Mikalcius presumably returning from Hartpury.

I'd always favour academy grads over journeymen but there are normally only 1-2 per season who are genuinely up to it, which isn't a consistent enough return to take away the need for prem standard squad filler. In the last couple of years we've only really had Sloan. That said, others I mentioned above will be a good intake along with possibly Archie White and Charlie Piper so we're doing better than most.

Both Merrick and Twomey started ahead of Matthews when fit, Unfortunately that wasn't often enough

So I'd probably look to sack the medical team and/or conditioning team...

In the backs, we already have the following who can play in the same positions as Alofa:

Lowe
Marchant
Hopper
Stanley
Chisholm
Visser
Walker
Yarde
Brown
Morris

with Ibitoye, Mikalcius and Aspland-Robinson coming through.

Hopper is already leaving, Stanley is not good enough. So yeah, we need a player there...but.

It's just that Wasps look at a whole in their squad at wing/centre/FB (like us), and sign Beale. While we sign Alofa...and we're both meant to be operating to the same budget!

Freuan was available. Woodward was available. Mermoz. Rob Horne. Juan de Jongh. That's a list of 6 players who cover 12, 13, wing or fullback, all of whom could potentially be first choice, and many of whom would be able to move around the 15 quite easily to accommodate other players.

And the same applies across the park

Stom, you are preaching to the converted!

Honestly, there are so many signings made where I feel like 'why weren't Quins in for him'?

I'd see Saili as a definite updgrade on Hopper but the more time that passes without him signing, the more I'm convinced we've screwed that one up too.

From a wasps perspective:

I just spent about 15 minutes doing a player by player review on whether to stay or not, but realised I'd keep 95% of players. Only potential ones I'd consider things about:

Eastmond, Cruse, De Luca and Armitage

I thought De Luca was retiring?

What a terrible thread to and a insult to our clubs players,Which Tyler do you actually go to games at Bath?
Had we played KPN at Sale instead of Knight we would of won the game,coming on and winning a scrum penalty almost immediately while Knight struggled all game.Hes won the players MOM twice this season,given by the players after the game,been mentioned in the press by our coach this week as a great addition and a revelation having played so little rugby but like I said I don't believe you go to many games.

PPJ wrote:Which Tyler do you actually go to games at Bath?
...but like I said I don't believe you go to many games.

{Mod} I am unsure whether Wheaton's Law is officially part of the board rules, but I will still enforce it here. No personal digs please, especially when entirely speculative. Opinions may differ, but there is no need to be uncivil. {/Mod}

Puja

padprop wrote:From a wasps perspective:

I just spent about 15 minutes doing a player by player review on whether to stay or not, but realised I'd keep 95% of players. Only potential ones I'd consider things about:

Eastmond, Cruse, De Luca and Armitage

Cruse has shown up well, especially as third choice in my mind. Eastmond didn't have enough time before injury unfortunately. Armitage will potentially get a shot next season, since we seem to put championship players through the gym in their first season.

I should add that there was no malicious intent in this thread - I just thought it was an interesting topic. We often talk about possible signings and who we'd like to see at our clubs, so why not discuss who we would be happy to lose?

For anyone curious, I have recently bought a Quins season ticket. I've always attended 2-3 games per year but as I've been playing, I've only really gone to Friday or Sunday games or the Big Game. I've hung up my boots for next season and to be honest part of buying the season ticket was to stop me from being tempted to play ... I'm getting old and after a being out with a couple of broken bones last season, I've decided to take a year off, potentially permanently!

Puja wrote:

PPJ wrote:Which Tyler do you actually go to games at Bath?
...but like I said I don't believe you go to many games.

{Mod} I am unsure whether Wheaton's Law is officially part of the board rules, but I will still enforce it here. No personal digs please, especially when entirely speculative. Opinions may differ, but there is no need to be uncivil. {/Mod}

Puja

But digs a players is,keyboard experts.

PPJ wrote:

Puja wrote:

PPJ wrote:Which Tyler do you actually go to games at Bath?
...but like I said I don't believe you go to many games.

{Mod} I am unsure whether Wheaton's Law is officially part of the board rules, but I will still enforce it here. No personal digs please, especially when entirely speculative. Opinions may differ, but there is no need to be uncivil. {/Mod}

Puja

But digs a players is,keyboard experts.

Well, yes. That's the point of this forum - a bunch of random people talk nonsense about rugby and pontificate on who they think is a good player and who they think is bad. That's what we do - we drink and we judge players, often incorrectly.

Puja

ilovelamp wrote:Ben Morgan, 12T, Galarza, Motu'u.

Some great front row talent from the academy currently playing in the U20's WC, including two hookers. Morgan just doesn't do it, for all his physical attributes and occasional good game, he goes missing too often. Same applies to Galarza. 12T is yesterday's man, I expect our first choice centre pairing next season to be Scott and Trinder, with Williams, Atkinson and Marshall covering.

I would add Heinz to that list, not particularly good at any of the core 9 skills, I fail to see why glos management rate him so well.

I would keep Morgan for another season personally, but agree he has been hit and miss since his leg break.

I sincerely apologise for having an opinion you disagree with PPJ. I also apologise for being poor, and you're right, attending rugby matches is well outside my income level.

I was pretty clear that I like Kane, he's just not close to being consistent enough to be a regular Prem starter IMO, my opinion on front row play is always given with full acknowledgement that I was a scrum half, and my direct knowledge of front row play is a blind hope that they won't hear about me feeding the ball, and eat it by mistake.

If Todd is so happy with KPN, it's amazing that he also agrees with me that he's 4th choice. If he actually believed that KPN was better than that, he wouldn't select both of Lahiff and Knight ahead of him when all are fit... unless you think that Todd agrees with my view from 3 years ago, which is that Henry was coming to be a genuine contender with Kane... I was wrong back then.

ETA, I may have lied about the sincerity of my apologies

WT ,I'll have a wager with you Todd re - signs him for another 3 years when his contracts up.