RugbyRebels

There's been a rather annoying tendency to regard this set of New Zealand players as superhuman, with some people on the board advocating that we need to take drastic action if we are going to stand even the slightest chance of being worthy to stand on the same pitch as these demi-gods.

They're a bloody good team. They're deservedly the best in the world. However, I think the last three weeks have shown that they are beatable, they're not insuperable and we have some players as good as theirs, if not better in facets. Give us England vs New Zealand in Japan tomorrow and, while they'd still be favourites, I'd back us to win 3 or 4 times in 10.

We do need to improve if we're going to be better than them and by a fairly reasonable distance too. But I think this tour has been hugely valuable in confirming that they're just a rugby team, like everyone else.

Puja

Was it ever not the case?

It'll be difficult to not unless Retallick stops slapping his thighs during the pre-match dance. Watching a man that handsome doing something that erotic makes me question my sexuality.

When do we start disliking the Welsh, Scots and Irish players - is there a formal cut off point?

The Lions tour has shown that the All Blacks are beatable and nothing I saw from the Lions test side made me think that they were any better than a more cohesive England team.

The other RC sides are pretty much in the doldrums so the Ireland result in Chicago and the Lions tour are a much better barometer of how good this All Black side is.

I'm looking forward to playing them next Autumn. Another year of continuous improvement under Eddie and I would be confident we could run them close, if not win.

Mr Mwenda wrote:When do we start disliking the Welsh, Scots and Irish players - is there a formal cut off point?

I think it's a gradual phasing in, helped along by Scott Quinnell's post-match "analysis".

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:It'll be difficult to not unless Retallick stops slapping his thighs during the pre-match dance. Watching a man that handsome doing something that erotic makes me question my sexuality.

Join me on the bisexual side mate. Twice as many options to get turned down by on date night!

Puja

I think our pack can more than match the ABs especially with our developing flankers but i do think we should be considering hard decisions in the backs (9, 12 and 15 particularly) to bring in well rounded players to maximise our packs quality.

Last two weeks have been great from a Lions fan perspective but last week i would discount as a barometer for the ABs and this week they made a number of unforced handling errors.


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Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:It'll be difficult to not unless Retallick stops slapping his thighs during the pre-match dance. Watching a man that handsome doing something that erotic makes me question my sexuality.

Join me on the bisexual side mate. Twice as many options to get turned down by on date night!

Puja

If the number doubles I'll have to take an Advanced Algerbraic Geometry PhD at MIT just to work out how many scornful looks I've received.

6.5 wrote:this week they made a number of unforced handling errors.

Quite a lot of handling errors from them all series...and a huge number from their Super teams in the warm up games. Suspect they've spent a bit too much time in recent seasons playing against flimsy second rate defences, making that aspect of their game look a bit better than it actually is.

All that matters is finding a way for US to beat them and win the RWC.

Think we can see that that AB team was lacking confidence and I've not seen an AB side finish (or not) so poorly; I didn't think their lineout would pretty much fall apart, nor that their handling and decision making (attack and defence) would be so iffy. Some was a function of decent defence, but I also think there was a mental fragility- maybe because they felt the Lions should have been a soft touch but weren't-- for sure in the last two tests when they shelled chance after chance a bit of heart seemed to go missing.

There are also some problems in key positions for them, and BB had a kicking mare (as in missing sitters). I'd expected them to play a lot better than they did, and curiously it was their back play which was lack lustre to say the least.

We still have to raise our skill levels, and find 4-5 high quality internationals (at least).

Puja wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:When do we start disliking the Welsh, Scots and Irish players - is there a formal cut off point?

I think it's a gradual phasing in, helped along by Scott Quinnell's post-match "analysis".

Puja

His comment that the Lions merely needed to keep the ball for the last 14 minutes was wonderful.

skidger wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mr Mwenda wrote:When do we start disliking the Welsh, Scots and Irish players - is there a formal cut off point?

I think it's a gradual phasing in, helped along by Scott Quinnell's post-match "analysis".

Puja

His comment that the Lions merely needed to keep the ball for the last 14 minutes was wonderful.

Mug-ni-fi-cent

Mr Mwenda wrote:When do we start disliking the Welsh, Scots and Irish players - is there a formal cut off point?

I've already texted my welsh mate calling for Howley to get the Wales job permanently. Think we can start being one eyed around 30 minutes after the final whistle

I was relatively underwhelmed by their Super teams as well, have to say. Clearly top quality club teams, but after the billing they got...Not after the fact either, as I said as much during the warm ups.

I wonder how the decline in standards in Australia, but especially South Africa, might effect them. That regular competition from South Africa in Super Rugby proved to be the best finishing school in the world for potential AB's.

Banquo wrote:We still have to raise our skill levels, and find 4-5 high quality internationals (at least).

Agreed but I get the impression that Eddie is pretty happy with what he has got.

Selection-wise, he may think the Fs are fine at 10/12, that Youngs is solid at 9 and that Brown can go on to the RWC, for example. That just leaves the back row. There, the phlegmatic approach might be that he'll pick Robshaw, Haskell, Billy V and Hughes for the four places in the 23 unless one or more of the youngsters convince him to do otherwise.

Then, maybe he'll back himself to be able to tackle your other point, skill levels, in the next 2 years/20 matches.

I don't think that stacks up but I'd not put it past Eddie to prove me wrong.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:We still have to raise our skill levels, and find 4-5 high quality internationals (at least).

Agreed but I get the impression that Eddie is pretty happy with what he has got.

Selection-wise, he may think the Fs are fine at 10/12, that Youngs is solid at 9 and that Brown can go on to the RWC, for example. That just leaves the back row. There, the phlegmatic approach might be that he'll pick Robshaw, Haskell, Billy V and Hughes for the four places in the 23 unless one or more of the youngsters convince him to do otherwise.

Then, maybe he'll back himself to be able to tackle your other point, skill levels, in the next 2 years/20 matches.

I don't think that stacks up but I'd not put it past Eddie to prove me wrong.

should have also said decision making (but its a skill of sorts ).

and in fairness to Eddie, he seems to have had a look at most of the options suggested on here- he can't just magic up top class internationals.

Mellsblue wrote:It'll be difficult to not unless Retallick stops slapping his thighs during the pre-match dance. Watching a man that handsome doing something that erotic makes me question my sexuality.

The prime of Brodie

Timbo wrote:

6.5 wrote:this week they made a number of unforced handling errors.

Quite a lot of handling errors from them all series...and a huge number from their Super teams in the warm up games. Suspect they've spent a bit too much time in recent seasons playing against flimsy second rate defences, making that aspect of their game look a bit better than it actually is.

Meeeaow!

The big plus for England was that, while man for man the Lions are a better 15, there isn't a huge gap between the Lions 23 and the probable England 6N 23.

While we're still a way behind NZ, I'm convinced we're closing in.

I think credit goes to Farrell Snr for the Lions defence, most of the time at least. The decision making of pressing or drifting changes the focus from decrying AB unforced errors to forced errors and shepherding the attack. England seem to be enhancing their skills in this area which is why i wanted JJ in the Lions starting XV. I accept I may have been wrong!

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:It'll be difficult to not unless Retallick stops slapping his thighs during the pre-match dance. Watching a man that handsome doing something that erotic makes me question my sexuality.

The prime of Brodie

Brodie is a hell of player and an icon for the ABs. Perhaps their most important key player. If you succeed in keeping him relatively quiet, you go a long way to giving the ABs a competitive game and nudging ahead in the mind game stakes. The Lions pack, especially Itoje, did a grand job in this respect of policing him in the last two tests.
A drawn series is a little disappointing for both sides but a pretty fair outcome.

morepork wrote:

Timbo wrote:

6.5 wrote:this week they made a number of unforced handling errors.

Quite a lot of handling errors from them all series...and a huge number from their Super teams in the warm up games. Suspect they've spent a bit too much time in recent seasons playing against flimsy second rate defences, making that aspect of their game look a bit better than it actually is.

Meeeaow!

In the last 18 months England have averaged 35 points and 3.4 try's per game against rugby championship opposition. If the shoe fits...

They lost some great players after 2015 which have not been replaced. One of the Kiwi journalists in the build up to this game thought this 3rd test would be very close and remarked about the standard of their championship opposition. It used to be Nonu and Conrad Smith and they were bloody fantastic imo. The replacements are not fit to tie their shoelaces........yet.