Purely speculation from the Guardian, but notwithstanding the obvious irony of the Force joining the Top League while the inferior Sunwolves continue to embarrass themselves in Super Rugby, this idea possibly holds some merit
With the axe hanging over the Melbourne Rebels and the Western Force, the ARU might be advised to follow South Africa’s example and relocate a Super Rugby team rather than cull it – and the obvious place is Japan.https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... -102061232
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:48 pm
by rowan
The big problem with this is that the Force would probably kick ass and win the Top League hands down, which wouldn't jibe too well with Japanese national pride, I suspect . . .
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:38 pm
by rowan
If the Force’s appeal is unsuccessful, Forrest has pledged to start up a new international rugby competition that will see the Force compete with teams from Asia.
I don't think an Asian league will happen, but hypethetically it could include the Force & Fiji, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore and Kandy. That's six to start with, and remember Super Rugby's precursor started out as a six team championship as well. The Chinese are investing heavily in the game right now, with rugby back on the Olympic agenda, and are looking to host some big games, according to a report in the Samoan Observer. Kandy might be an eye-opener for some, but in fact they have huge playing numbers in Sri Lanka (55K, according to World Rugby, which is more than Scotland), along with a fully established professional league which is attracting many Fijians. Perhaps Japan would enter a couple of teams as well, to bump it up to eight, but it's doubtful much interest would come from Korea, where the sport is mostly confined to the armed forces.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:56 pm
by rowan
rowan wrote:I don't think an Asian league will happen, but hypethetically it could include the Force & Fiji, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore and Kandy. That's six to start with, and remember Super Rugby's precursor started out as a six team championship as well. The Chinese are investing heavily in the game right now, with rugby back on the Olympic agenda, and are looking to host some big games, according to a report in the Samoan Observer. Kandy might be an eye-opener for some, but in fact they have huge playing numbers in Sri Lanka (55K, according to World Rugby, which is more than Scotland), along with a fully established professional league which is attracting many Fijians. Perhaps Japan would enter a couple of teams as well, to bump it up to eight, but it's doubtful much interest would come from Korea, where the sport is mostly confined to the armed forces.
Actually, this could conceivably happen. Force plus three big financial hubs, rugby-mad Fiji and Sri Lanka with its burgeoning domestic scene. Hong Kong is a well-established center for major rugby events, Singapore is already involved in hosting Super Rugby games (and would surely draw bigger crowds if it had its own team), and China is reported to be looking for some big games to host. Meanwhile, World Rugby is actually funding Fiji's involvement in Australia rugby, so a likely scenario there would be the withdrawal of the Pacific Island team from that event and the same funds being used to allow them to compete in an Asian Super Six instead. So you'd have:
Western Australia
Fiji
Hong Kong
Singapore
Shanghai
Sri Lanka
(possibly 2 Japanese teams)
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:45 am
by rowan
Will this result in a breakaway Aussie-Asia-Pacific league?
Good to see the Western Australians out supporting the Force at the RC test
The besieged Australian Rugby Union has had secret talks with mining magnate Andrew Forrest about his ambitious plans for an Indo-Pacific competition.
ARU chairman Cameron Clyne had face to face talks with Forrest while ARU chief executive Bill Pulver and other senior management also met with a Forrest delegation that included former Force captain Matt Hodgson on Saturday.
The talks came as the ARU faced a backlash from parents angry about the way their children were treated in the pre-game ceremony at the Wallabies test match against the Springboks on Saturday night.
The parents said the children were not allowed on the pitch as promised and blamed sensitivities over the recent axing of the Western Force, which has sparked protests including a show of support for the Force at Saturday night’s test.
Forrest, who was at the Test, said plans were moving forward rapidly. More details are expected to be released in the next few days.
“I’m delighted with the response we have had,” Forrest said.
“I don’t mind at all if Super Rugby rolls ahead very successfully and I hope it does.
“It’s not competitive to Super Rugby, not competitive to the ARU. It’s entirely complimentary to Australian rugby.
“The ARU will recognise that this is wonderful for Australian rugby, really manna from heaven, to attract the best talent back into Australia and make that all happen in time for the World Cup 2019 in Japan.
“What I know for sure is that the Indo- Pacific Championships are here and will add enormous depth to Australian rugby.”
Former Western Force captain and foundation player Matt Hodgson with Andrew Forrest at Rugby WA headquarters after the decision to axe the team from Super Rugby.
Former Western Force captain and foundation player Matt Hodgson with Andrew Forrest at Rugby WA headquarters after the decision to axe the team from Super Rugby.Picture: Nic Ellis
Forrest said Wallabies coach Michael Cheika was excited by the idea.
“Michael is a very pragmatic guy and he is excited by anything that can keep the best talent in Australia and get the best talent back.”
The ARU would not comment on the talks however it is understood the governing body is looking at using the rebel tournament as a replacement for the National Rugby Championship that is likely to be shut down next year.
Former Wallabies captain could have found himself in a sticky situation over the Western Force - but lunch organisers found a novel way to lighten the tone.
Meanwhile the stalemate Test at nib Stadium was bitter sweet for Western Force and Australian winger Curtis Rona.
He went onto the ground to make his second Wallabies appearance but as he left was still coming to grips with the fact that it would be his last appearance there as a Force player.
Rona, who played his junior rugby for Wanneroo Districts, switched to rugby league when there was no pathway to professional rugby in Perth.
He was lured back this year but his time in Perth has been short lived after the ARU axed the Force from Super Rugby this week.
He is now a target of Australian Super Rugby sides and there has been talk of NRL clubs trying to get him back.
But Rona sent a clear message after Saturday’s 23-all draw against the Springboks - he is staying in rugby.
“There has been a lot of talk in the background but my main focus is the Wallabies,” he said.
“My main goal is to keep playing consistent football, get more game time under my belt and feel my way around at this level
“Negotiations behind the scenes will sort themselves out in coming weeks.”
Let's face it, the entire Southern Hemisphere plus Asia is far too big for just one professional rugby competition (two if we count Japanese Top league). I'm sure there must be room for a second high profile professional competition in such a huge geographical region, and, once again, it's time for Australasia to either align itself with other Southern Hemisphere nations such as South Africa and Argentina - or else with the Asian Pacific region. Trying to do both was always going to end up as a freak show contortionist act doomed to failure.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:42 am
by rowan
Kafer also gets behind the proposed Indo-Pacific league:
AUSTRALIA’S national coaching director Rod Kafer has thrown his support behind Andrew Forrest’s Indo-Pacific competition, believing it could develop into a competitive competition that sits below Super Rugby.
Last week, billionaire mining magnate and Western Force backer Forrest announced plans to create a new six-team competition, which includes the Force.
The announcement came one hour after the NSW Supreme Court dismissed the Force’s appeal that they were unlawfully dumped by the Australian Rugby Union.
Forrest is expected to expand upon last Tuesday’s announcement on Wednesday.
ARU really getting on board with the Indo-Pacific rugby competition proposal:
THE Australian Rugby Union has established a working group to assist in the development of the Indo-Pacific Rugby Championship.
The group will be headed by former Wallabies flanker and current ARU vice-chairman Brett Robinson and includes key high performance, commercial and legal representatives from the ARU management team.
ARU chairman Cameron Clyne said: “The ARU is making a serious commitment to work in collaboration with Andrew Forrest’s team to develop the IPRC concept and will assign a small management team led by Brett Robinson to assist with the core elements of establishing the competition.
rowan wrote:Let's face it, the entire Southern Hemisphere plus Asia is far too big for just one professional rugby competition (two if we count Japanese Top league). I'm sure there must be room for a second high profile professional competition in such a huge geographical region, and, once again, it's time for Australasia to either align itself with other Southern Hemisphere nations such as South Africa and Argentina - or else with the Asian Pacific region. Trying to do both was always going to end up as a freak show contortionist act doomed to failure.
Looking at the points table for the latest Super Rugby season, one or none Australian teams were competitive, and two or three South African teams were competitive, depending on where you draw a line.
By competitive, I mean consistently performing throughout the season such that they gained as many points as the lowest-ranked New Zealand side.
So people have to get real. You either accept that you'll have extended years of thrashings before things improve (assuming they ever will), or you go back to the tried-and-tested promotion/relegation system, but over a wider geographical area. It might irk some people who want to engineer politically correct results, to have 5 NZ teams in the top half of the premier competition for a while, but artificially seeding non-competitive teams is nonsense, to my mind.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:19 pm
by rowan
So you are suggesting both South Africa and Japan remain in Super Rugby, but that a second division be created - with promotion relegation? Am I right?
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:14 pm
by rowan
Dave Wessels will return to oversee the new “Western Force” in next year’s proposed Indo Pacific Rugby Championship even though he has taken charge of Melbourne Rebels.https://www.pressreader.com/australia/t ... 0716474617
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:47 pm
by rowan
Matt Hodgson confident ARU will back Indo Pacific Rugby Championship
Justin Chadwick, AAPFOX SPORTS
3-4 minutes
October 4, 20171:08pm
FORMER Wallaby Matt Hodgson is confident the Australian Rugby Union will give the new Indo Pacific Rugby Championship its tick of approval, with a decision to be made as early as next week.
The IPRC was launched by billionaire mining magnate Andrew Forrest last month in the wake of the Western Force’s axing from the Super Rugby competition.
Forrest and the ARU were involved in a bitter slanging match while the Force’s axing unfolded.
But peace has now been restored, with the ARU establishing a working group to help Forrest’s team set up the new competition.
However, the ARU are yet to officially endorse the IPRC — a looming decision that could either make or break the new competition.
If the ARU don’t endorse it, the IPRC would effectively become a rebel competition, meaning players who want to remain eligible for Wallabies selection won’t be able to participate.
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But Hodgson is confident the ARU will throw its support behind the IPRC, saying it’s in the best interests of Australian rugby.
“Hopefully by next week we should have some things moving forward,” Hodgson said.
“All the conversations we’re having with the ARU are positive.
“We have to think what’s best for rugby, and this is the best opportunity Australia has been offered in years. It’s pretty exciting.”
The new six-team competition has been dubbed the IPL of rugby.
It’s set to be launched in August next year — after the Super Rugby season.
The Force are the only confirmed participant so far.
The remaining five teams could come out of countries like Japan, China, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, and South Korea.
Hodgson has had hundreds of players contact him expressing an interest in joining the competition.
“I’ve had interest from internationals, and I’ve had interest from Australian players abroad wanting to come back,” Hodgson said.
“And I’ve had interest from some players who were looking to go overseas next year, but now might stay in Australia to play in this.”
Hodgson, who is the IPRC’s director of sports relations, retired from Super Rugby ranks at the end of last season.
But the 36-year-old is so excited about this new competition, he is keen to pull on the boots again — as long as it doesn’t hinder the chances of a local product coming up through the ranks.
Former Force coach Dave Wessels has been appointed the new head coach of the Melbourne Rebels.
But as part of his contract, he will be allowed to return to Perth to coach the Force in the IPRC competition.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:35 am
by Lizard
So, 6 teams, beginning after Super Rugby. In non-RWC years the final is in the first weekend in August, followed by one weekend off before TRC starts. TRC is 6 rounds, with 2 bye weeks being 8 weekends. Then there's 1 weekend off, Bledisloe III, 1 weekend off and November tours start usually taking another 4 weekends. That's essentially 16 weekends of test match rugby/rest weekends.
To make a worthwhile comp with 6 sides, I presume it will be a home/away double round robin, with a couple of play-off rounds and some bye weeks given the travel. So probably a 14 or 15 week comp, overlapping the SH international season almost exactly.
So whether this IPRC is ARU-approved or not, it couldn't have current Wallabies in it. It seems pretty unlikely that the standard will be at top domestic level so as to provide a direct route into test rugby for Australian players.
My real concern is that the IPRC franchises will be like the European Clubs and encourage Pacific Island players to be unavailable for November tests etc.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:07 am
by rowan
I suspect it'll be short-lived, and will certainly involve Pacific Island teams (quite possibly all 3), much like the old South Pac Series & Super 10 tournaments which preceded professional Super Rugby. & that, I suspect, is Western Australia's tactic at this stage - simply to keep the franchise alive long enough to have a crack at returning when the TV contracts, etc, are re-negotiated in 2020. Anything could happen over the next few years.
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:31 pm
by rowan
IPRC talks progressing: Pulver
ARU CEO Bill Pulver says discussions over Andrew Forrest's proposed Indo-Pacific Rugby Championship have been taken to the next level.
An ARU working group met with WA billionaire Andrew Forrest last week about his proposed IIPRC, and Pulver said talks had gone to World Rugby, though the concept is still in its fledgling stage.
“There's deep engagement,” he said.
“We have a working party chaired by our deputy chair and a variety of ARU executive involved.
“There's discussion at a world rugby level, so there's a very deep discussion going but frankly a lot of work to be done.”
Cameron Clyne chaired the meeting. Photo: Getty Images
Cameron Clyne appeared in Canberra on Monday night. Photo: Getty Images
“The outgoing ARU boss said he was looking forward to the end of an ongoing Senate inquiry into the sport, after a tumultuous year for Australian rugby.
Pulver appeared in the opening hearing of the inquiry last month, while chairman Cameron Clyne testified on Monday night in Canberra.
The Senators have questioned both men over conflicts of interest surrounding Pulver’s former deputy Rob Clarke as well as the timeframe under which the idea of cutting a team was first formulated.
The final report will be handed down on November 13.
"Frankly we're looking forward to the process coming to an end. It's been an extremely difficult process for all involved,” Pulver said.
“Eliminating a team from a Super Rugby competition was never going to be fun and never going to be consequence free.
“So, we are looking forward to the process being behind us and getting on with Super Rugby next year.”
Meanwhile, a big international decision looms for Australia next month, as World Rugby’s members vote on the 2023 Rugby World Cup host.
Ireland is one of three bidders, competing with France and South Africa for the tournament and while Ireland President said he was ‘optimistic’ of Australian support, pulver was more ambivalent.
“The Rugby World Cup is the third biggest sporting event on the planet so it has a very significant impact on whichever country is successful,” he said.
“I can tell you I had the great pleasure of being in Ireland a couple of months ago watching an incredibly successful women's Rugby World Cup.
“They did an outstanding job and two cracking games between the Australian women's team and the Irish women's team. I've also had the pleasure of seeing their bid and it is a superb quality bid.
“The reality is they're up against two pretty tough competitors, in France and South Africa.
“It'll be interesting to note the outcome later in November.”
Re: Force to play in Japan?
Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:58 am
by rowan
The latest (but nothing to riveting tbh):
Andrew Forrest has put the ball in the ARU’s court when it comes to his new competition, after unveiling more key details on Friday.
Forrest, who met with the ARU board earlier this week, said the governing body was set to provide a preferred window, information on player eligibility and approve the Indo Pacific Rugby Championship in principle by November 2.
The WA mining magnate said there were six teams set to be involved and presented two possible windows for the tournament - July-October 2018 or March-June 2019.
Both would compete directly with either NRC or Super Rugby, though Forrest is confident of attracting talent.
Looks like IPR is definitely coming. They've even got their own web site and stirring video up and running now https://www.iprugby.com/
Reminds me a lot of the CANZ series about a quarter of a century ago, when Otago and Waikato responded to their exclusion from the South Pacific Championships by setting up a comp with Canadian and Argie teams. Didn't last long, but the end result of the rival championships was Super Rugby. Who knows where IPR will lead?
Re: Indo-Pacific League
Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:16 pm
by rowan
Changed the name of this thread to reflect the content (since the first few entries) a little more accurately:
Seems the Indo-European League is definitely going ahead next season, competing directly with Super Rugby, with Andrew Forrest holding meetings all over Asia to promote it. & what a great development this will be, getting pro rugby up and running in the region with its massive population and various booming economies. Which of the following nations might be involved?
Representatives from the following World Rugby Full Member unions travelled at the invitation of IPRC to hear the ideas being put forward for the Region to be able to host this high level competition, the Indo Pacific Rugby Championship starting in 2019
Chinese Taipei
Guam
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Malaysia
Philippines
Pakistan
Thailand
UAE
The IPRC is being funded by philanthropist Mr Andrew Forrest from Australia. Andrew met all the attendees in person and commented, “It was fantastic that so many people from so many different unions were able to get up to Tokyo at such short notice to hear what we had to say about the exciting future of Rugby in the Region.
Although we were only able to send out invitations on Monday this week, yet the enthusiasm and willingness of so many unions to get here, despite the obvious difficulties with short notice and possible visa issues, was truly outstanding.
Unions that would otherwise perhaps not have been able to hear us first-hand seized the opportunity to travel up and hear what the future possibly held for everyone”
“It certainly bodes well for us to see the willingness and ability of Asia Rugby to respond so quickly and positively to the initiatives being put forward.”
Asia Rugby’s World Rugby Council Member, Trevor Gregory, who was one of those who attended said, “This is an amazing opportunity for us in Asia to really develop the game at the performance level.
World Rugby,Rugby Australia and Asia Rugby are on the same page and are all now working closely together to try to ensure the success of this visionary project which can provide a stepping stone for many of our participating unions to the next level.
This will affect not only the players, but for the unions themselves; their infrastructure and support, including administration and match officiating. It is even more exciting that we are talking about not just the men’s game, but also women’s competitions as well, both at 15’s and 7’s. I am personally delighted that this very important meeting was able to take place.and our thanks to Andrew and his team for their inspirational vision as detailed in a very professional presentation. ”
I don't think those cities represent the final lineup by any stretch; just some of the places they are considering to make up the numbers. I think Fiji will certainly be involved, and there is a good chance they could base a team in Shanghai as well. Japan's a possibility, of course, along with Singapore.
I also read somewhere it may not get off the ground till 2019. Hopefully that wasn't accurate.
Re: Indo-Pacific League
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:54 pm
by rowan
Conspicuously absent from that lineup, also, is China. What are they doing with the US$100M grant they received from Alisports? I'd even heard they were looking at staging a few big games there. Shanghai is the obvious choice.
Re: Indo-Pacific League
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:45 pm
by rowan
Asia gives its support:
Asia Rugby held its end of year Council meeting and AGM in Hong Kong on Sunday 19 November, where the Council member unions unanimously supported, in principle, the proposed, new Indo Pacific Rugby Championship from early 2019.
marcus_smithAsia Rugby’s newly elected President, Aga Hussain said: “Not only am I delighted to be elected as the Regional Association’s President for the next 2 years, where will see the , but I’m equally delighted to be able to lead our organization at such an exciting time as we embrace Andrew Forrest’s kind philanthropy and futurist initiative to bring professional rugby to Asia to complement Japan’s Top League; the Super Rugby Sunwolves and Hong Kong’s High Performance environment.
The IPRC will without doubt help us achieve our strategic mission to grow the Asian Rugby Family by promoting the values and healthy lifestyle of rugby; inspiring the youth of Asia to a lifelong association with Rugby and creating and driving an environment for sustainable success”.
Asia Rugby’s World Rugby Council member, Trevor Gregory said: “As I said in Tokyo 2 weeks ago, when Andrew Forrest so kindly funded a gathering of potential stakeholders, this is an amazing opportunity for us in Asia to really develop the game at the performance level.
World Rugby, Australia Rugby and Asia Rugby are all on the same page and are all now working closely together to try to ensure the success of this visionary project, which can provide a stepping stone for many of our participating unions up to the next level.
‘This will affect not only the players, but for the unions themselves; their infrastructure and support, including administration and match officiating. It is even more exciting that we are talking about not just the men’s game, but also women’s competitions as well, both at 7’s and 15’s”.
