Autumn Internationals

[Which Tyler]

Argentina
Australia
Samoa

1. Genge
2. George
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Robshaw
7. Curry
8. Hughes

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Te'o
13. Joseph
14. Daly
15. Watson

16. Hartley; 17. MVunipola; 18. Williams; 19. Launchbury; 20. Underhill
21. Robson; 22. Farrell; 23. Nowell


I'm always wary of too many changes; I try to keep myself to ≤1 experiment per unit.


Up front, Genge and George have earned the right to show what they can do from the start, but their backup needs to be tried and tested.

At lock, these two are currently our best, and whilst I'm not sure they're too well suited to playing together, I'd like to see it tried. Leaving Kruis out is harsh, but we need to see how we go without him.

Robshaw does not deserve to be dropped, Hughes is our best available 8; and whichever Curry is going best gets the nod there to see what we can do with a "specialist" OSF. Underhill's versatility gets the bench spot.



Getting rid of Care is more important than getting rid of Young's, and I reserve the right to change my mind the moment I see him singing the anthem, or passing just behind the FH's feet. Ford is the best 10 in the country, playing well, and seems to have put his mental issues behind him; seems to play better when he's trusted to run the game rather than feeling undermined/inhibited by having Farrell sat on his shoulder.

Ford would benefit more than Faz with having Te'o outside, whilst pairing Faz with Te'o becomes too predictable; JJ to make hay with a centre partner who also attracts defenders. Needs to read the offloads and pop passes, still can't expect to be given space.

Enough of any claims that Watson isn't a FB please; that back 3 will scare anyone silly. Nowell's got work-rate, and handling, and deals with traffic better - but that's all the OC's job, not the wing's. Equally May's not as bad at that stuff as his reputation has it (why do so many players get stuck with the reputation the earned in their first season? May's an idiot, but he can still learn some things)

[Mellsblue]

Looks about right to me. I'd probably swop replacement and starter at 1 & 7 but it's pretty 50/50. Flyhalf out gets the old juices flowing.
I'd love Henry Thomas to have one hell of a month and come from nowhere to get a spot on the bench.
Leaving Launch out of the starting XV just feels wrong but you can't drop Itoje and Lawes has been superb, albeit at 6.

[fivepointer]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

[Which Tyler]

LHP is a bit of a toss-up. Starting Genge is my "experiment" in the front row. I think he's proven enough to have dampened a shot whilst no-one's really in possession of the shirt. I also still have this nagging feeling that Mako works better off the bench.

I really hope Thomas can launch a genuine challenge come the 6N. I'd be delighted if he goes well enough in Europe to challenge for November!

At lock, leaving out Launch or Kruis is harsh on the individual; but we've so much depth. I think Itoje and Kruis is our most destructive pair... If they work together.

At 7, either way round is an experiment; when tossing that coin I'll always come down in favour of starting the specialist, with the (comparatively) utility option on the bench. My worry is that if Hughes goes down injured in the first 10 minutes... we're then choosing between Itoje or Underhill to play #8!

I'll still worry about Young's, but he should have a good working relationship with Ford and... there's no-one else actually putting their hand up. We simply HAVE to find a 3rd choice though, and preferably promote him immediately to 2nd whilst searching for a new 3rd choice (called Maunder).


Oh, can I also say how good it feels to picking most of these from a selection of good options, rather than least bad (excepting backup THP, SH and IC). Outside of those 3, I feel we could put out a first XV to challenge anyone (not wearing black).

[Mikey Brown]

LHP is a bit of a toss-up. Starting Genge is my "experiment" in the front row. I think he's proven enough to have dampened a shot whilst no-one's really in possession of the shirt. I also still have this nagging feeling that Mako works better off the bench.

At lock, leaving out Launch or Kruis is harsh on the individual; but we've so much depth. I think Itoje and Kruis is our most destructive pair... If they work together.

At 7, either way round is an experiment; when tossing that coin I'll always come down in favour of starting the specialist, with the (comparatively) utility option on the bench. My worry is that if Hughes goes down injured in the first 10 minutes... we're then choosing between Itoje or Underhill to play #8!

I'll still worry about Young's, but he shhould have a good working relationship with Ford and... there's no-one else actually putting their hand up. We simply HAVE to find a 3rd choice though, and preferably promote him immediately to 2nd whilst searching for a new 3rd choice (called Maunder).


Oh, can I also say how good it feels to picking most of these from a selection of good options, rather than least bad (excepting backup THP, SH and IC). Outside of those 3, I feel we could put out a first XV to challenge anyone (not wearing black).

Lol. Yes. He should.

[Which Tyler]

I'm Not commenting on whether he WILL.
Mind, whenever talking about Young's for England, we have to remember who he alternative is...

[jngf]

It would be great to see one of the Curry's picked at 7 though I think Eddie puts a premium on defence and physicality in his flanker picks so I expect Underhill will get the selection. Underhill seems more in the mold of Peter Winterbottom than an out and out fetcher like say Back or Andy Robinson and it will be interesting to see if he has can do the link man role in addition to his undoubted ability in defence.

On a further matter, the AIs may just see the comeback of Ben Morgan at 8 at some point?
(I really like the attacking flair of Simmonds but wonder if he's built more to play 7 than 8 at test level?)

[Mikey Brown]

I'm Not commenting on whether he WILL.
Mind, whenever talking about Young's for England, we have to remember who he alternative is...

I can't go there again. I just thought it was a funny comment. They've probably played 100 games together and the consistency of service is still a little... lacking, shall we say?

Care generally got the ball in his hands relatively promptly in Argentina, that's basically all I care about because they're both pretty crap otherwise. Youngs at least seems to have upped his % of gains when running the ball recently.

I'm really wondering how badly it could go if we just take Maunder/Spencer/Townsend/Robson. Would it actually be worse?

[Mellsblue]

Youngs and Ford have an excellent working relationship. Ford knows Youngs' game inside out. That is why he knows to thoroughly stretch his hamstrings and to wear body armour over his ribs.

[Banquo]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

[Which Tyler]

I'm Not commenting on whether he WILL.
Mind, whenever talking about Young's for England, we have to remember who he alternative is...

I can't go there again. I just thought it was a funny comment. They've probably played 100 games together and the consistency of service is still a little... lacking, shall we say?

Care generally got the ball in his hands relatively promptly in Argentina, that's basically all I care about because they're both pretty crap otherwise. Youngs at least seems to have upped his % of gains when running the ball recently.

I'm really wondering how badly it could go if we just take Maunder/Spencer/Townsend/Robson. Would it actually be worse?

I doubt that they've had 100 together (or not at elite level, anyway) adding Leicester and England together George hasn't played 100 times, let alone the occasions that Ben wasn't there.
Either way, most of this games we're probably during George's first stint at Leicester 4 years ago, George is a different player to then; I wish Ben were a different player to then; and I wouldn't trust Ben to remember a FHs preference from 4 weeks ago, let alone 4 years.

As for Care Vs Youngs, they're both absolutely maddening, and both are capable of putting the ball in the breadbasket 9 times out of 10; and both capable of putting barely in reach 6 times out of 10.

I'd love to see the 4 you've mentioned given a shot. I'm not sure that Robson wouldn't be just the same as Young's and Care though, and I don't want to take too many risks in one shot, especially in such a crucial position (of course it's the most crucial position on the pitch, it's my old position!)

[Mikey Brown]

Have to disagree on the passing bit, Care's reliability in passing is miles ahead and that's not even me suggesting he's particularly good at it. It just seems convenient and a bit lazy to assess them as being the same, flawed, player.

Anyway, I've said this all a thousand times and they're both lacking. I consider it an equal risk to repeatedly put out players who can't perform their primary task.

Incidentally was that a wicked pass I saw from Youngs for May's try at the weekend? He can do it in open play, just not off the ground.

[Timbo]

I have no horse in this race (i.e i’m not a Tigers fan), but I just can’t correlate the Ben Youngs I read about on this forum with the Ben Youngs I’ve watched on the pitch for most of Eddie Jones’ reign. He’s been a key cog in the team imo, kept us in games at times, won games at times...He was key in back to back victories against SA and Oz last Autumn and still copped some harsh criticism on here.

He’s also been playing well for Tigers so far this season.

[Mikey Brown]

Well we need something to moan about now that we're actually winning some games.

[loudnconfident]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

Won't Itoje/JJ be rested as he was in the Lions? (or so Eddie said). Ditto Farrell.

[kk67]

I have no horse in this race (i.e i’m not a Tigers fan), but I just can't correlate the Ben Youngs I read about on this forum with the Ben Youngs I’ve watched on the pitch for most of Eddie Jones’ reign. He’s been a key cog in the team imo, kept us in games at times, won games at times...He was key in back to back victories against SA and Oz last Autumn and still copped some harsh criticism on here.

He’s also been playing well for Tigers so far this season.

Tend to agree. I've not been too keen in the past but he's doing a decent job.
Surprised you're a 9 WT, I always pictured you as a lanky streak of... in midfield.

[Which Tyler]

Surprised you're a 9 WT, I always pictured you as a lanky streak of... in midfield.

Nope, always been a gobshite, on and off the pitch

[fivepointer]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

They can sit out the first 2 games. We have plenty of good lock options and i'd like to see how Slade goes alongside Te'o. Make further changes for Samoa bringing in Mako, Ewels, another SH, Loz and possibly Francis.

[Banquo]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

Won't Itoje/JJ be rested as he was in the Lions? (or so Eddie said). Ditto Farrell.

why not Lawes then? Or Nowell? Or Teo? Or Watson?

[Banquo]

Mix n match for Argentina and Samoa, then play strongest XV against Australia.

At this stage a side of Genge, George, Williams, Lawes, Launchbury, Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Te'o, Slade, May & Watson would be my pick.

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

They can sit out the first 2 games. We have plenty of good lock options and i'd like to see how Slade goes alongside Te'o. Make further changes for Samoa bringing in Mako, Ewels, another SH, Loz and possibly Francis.

ah ok, misunderstood, I thought that was your first choice.

[loudnconfident]

No Itoje or JJ is interesting.

Won't Itoje/JJ be rested as he was in the Lions? (or so Eddie said). Ditto Farrell.

why not Lawes then? Or Nowell? Or Teo? Or Watson?

Why not indeed? May depend on how many Lions games they had. But Eddie did say he's rest the Lions crew?

[Banquo]

Won't Itoje/JJ be rested as he was in the Lions? (or so Eddie said). Ditto Farrell.

why not Lawes then? Or Nowell? Or Teo? Or Watson?

Why not indeed? May depend on how many Lions games they had. But Eddie did say he's rest the Lions crew?

yes, guess, as with all things Eddie.....speak with forked tongue

[Digby]

So George will be rested?

[scuzzaman]

Australia definitely the banana-skin in that set.

[Oakboy]

I suppose it is all about Eddie's RWC squad. He must have all but a few (4 or 5?) chalked in already. Arguably, he has two options or more for every position (with caps). We might consider that there are unresolved issues at 7, 9, 12 etc. but I'm not so sure that he thinks the same way. Maybe, his experimentation in the AIs will be marginal. Perhaps, building game-plans for differing scenarios will be more important in his mind. Or, simply, he will want to give game time to those already on the plane.