Injury Crisis

[whatisthejava]

While it seems to be worse in the AP then Pro 14 World Rugby really need to think of a better answer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41544641

I still think max weights for teams is the only sensible answer to permanently lower the size of players

If you want a big centre like Jamie Roberts or George North or a 22 stone prop then somewhere else you have a slighlty smaller guy making up for it, id also like to see subs reduced to 3 but that has to wait until they reduce the size of these guys

[Big D]

The stats about number of people injured are only effective as a headline figure.

How many were contact injuries?How many in game injuries?

If I were world rugby I'd do away with pre season games. Meaningless pish and a lot of 1st team guys don't play anyway.

No more than 2 full contact sessions a week during pre season and 1 per week during the season.

Weight isn't a workable solution. players would end up cutting weight to make the weigh in and it would significantly increase the risk of concussion.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Reducing the number of subs will only increase the number of injuries Java... Players playing on through pain/injuries, plus you're far more susceptible to get hurt when playing when knackered.

I'm sure there is a real credible case for reducing the number of subs - preventing injury is not part of that case.

[Which Tyler]

This might be worth a listen to tonight, although it's likely to be Premiership focussed, the injury issue seems to be affecting everyone. 5 live 7.30: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b097c8jq

I will definitely try to remember to tune in.
If anyone's around at the time, a bump of this thread should be useful to more than just myself.

As for solutions - I think the current crisis is a combination that we're now actually taking concussions seriously(ish - sometimes it's inconvenient) and players aren't expected to just run it off, or sit out a week, and play the following. On top of that this year's laws seem to have increased the ball-in-play time; so there are simply more contacts happening, and specifically more contacts with tired minds/bodies.

I think the principal problem is that players are playing too much rugby, and probably over-training as well. The best thing World Rugby could do would be to bring in a limit on the amount of rugby any body is allowed to play in a season.

[whatisthejava]

Reducing the number of subs will only increase the number of injuries Java... Players playing on through pain/injuries, plus you're far more susceptible to get hurt when playing when knackered.

I can see some logic in that but a counter point would be if your 60 mins in a tough game of rugby do you stand more chance of being injured by someone thats running at you after 60 mins or someone just come on the pitch and enjoying running at a tired defence

I dont think there is a right answer which is why reducing subs can only be part of the solution with the goal being reducing the size of guys

- Was listening to the pod and Danny Ciprifanny was on saying he felt pre season was also a big problem, Haskell stated 2 weeks ago he felt too many coaches so players are getting over coached and not getting enough rest and we have all heard several players talk about the need for a good break to get away from rugby for a few weeks

[whatisthejava]

Weight isn't a workable solution. players would end up cutting weight to make the weigh in and it would significantly increase the risk of concussion.

I dont follow the logic, lighter players would mean less weight behind contact so getting hit with shoulders, elbows and knees would have less force and possibly less concusion, il be honest I got my degree in concussion science from watching the John Beattie special while playing a game on my phone

But something has to be done to try and cut the size of players down, listening to some players talk about the lifelong pain they have after is crap but the game has a duty of care to the top players to try and change the game to try and make bulking up unneccasry to play and for me the only answer is to enforce a weight limit for teams.

You could start pretty high like the average french team now and lower 10 - 20 Kg a year until teams are say 100-150Kg less than now with just tweaking it every year pushing towards more lighter more dynamic players but that has to be in combination with forcing players to play longer rather than certain players that know they can stay as big as they want because they only have to play between 20 - 45 mins a game

[Big D]

Weight isn't a workable solution. players would end up cutting weight to make the weigh in and it would significantly increase the risk of concussion.

I dont follow the logic, lighter players would mean less weight behind contact so getting hit with shoulders, elbows and knees would have less force and possibly less concusion, il be honest I got my degree in concussion science from watching the John Beattie special while playing a game on my phone

But something has to be done to try and cut the size of players down, listening to some players talk about the lifelong pain they have after is crap but the game has a duty of care to the top players to try and change the game to try and make bulking up unneccasry to play and for me the only answer is to enforce a weight limit for teams.

You could start pretty high like the average french team now and lower 10 - 20 Kg a year until teams are say 100-150Kg less than now with just tweaking it every year pushing towards more lighter more dynamic players but that has to be in combination with forcing players to play longer rather than certain players that know they can stay as big as they want because they only have to play between 20 - 45 mins a game

To have a weight limit there'd need to be a weigh in. When would you weigh them?It's unfeasible to do a weigh in on the day of the game. It could and would lead to cancellations.

Teams would need to agree with players what weight they should be on the scales. People can cut up to 2 stone in 48 hours and rehydrate it back in in 24 and players would cut weight rather than walk around at a pre defined weight because they would see it as an advantage to be heavier.

During and after a weight cut there is less cerebrospinal fluid which would lead to more concussions in a sport like rugby.

[whatisthejava]

Weight isn't a workable solution. players would end up cutting weight to make the weigh in and it would significantly increase the risk of concussion.

I dont follow the logic, lighter players would mean less weight behind contact so getting hit with shoulders, elbows and knees would have less force and possibly less concusion, il be honest I got my degree in concussion science from watching the John Beattie special while playing a game on my phone

But something has to be done to try and cut the size of players down, listening to some players talk about the lifelong pain they have after is crap but the game has a duty of care to the top players to try and change the game to try and make bulking up unneccasry to play and for me the only answer is to enforce a weight limit for teams.

You could start pretty high like the average french team now and lower 10 - 20 Kg a year until teams are say 100-150Kg less than now with just tweaking it every year pushing towards more lighter more dynamic players but that has to be in combination with forcing players to play longer rather than certain players that know they can stay as big as they want because they only have to play between 20 - 45 mins a game

To have a weight limit there'd need to be a weigh in. When would you weigh them?It's unfeasible to do a weigh in on the day of the game. It could and would lead to cancellations.

Teams would need to agree with players what weight they should be on the scales. People can cut up to 2 stone in 48 hours and rehydrate it back in in 24 and players would cut weight rather than walk around at a pre defined weight because they would see it as an advantage to be heavier.

During and after a weight cut there is less cerebrospinal fluid which would lead to more concussions in a sport like rugby.

Good answer

[switchskier]

Weight isn't a workable solution. players would end up cutting weight to make the weigh in and it would significantly increase the risk of concussion.

I dont follow the logic, lighter players would mean less weight behind contact so getting hit with shoulders, elbows and knees would have less force and possibly less concusion, il be honest I got my degree in concussion science from watching the John Beattie special while playing a game on my phone

But something has to be done to try and cut the size of players down, listening to some players talk about the lifelong pain they have after is crap but the game has a duty of care to the top players to try and change the game to try and make bulking up unneccasry to play and for me the only answer is to enforce a weight limit for teams.

You could start pretty high like the average french team now and lower 10 - 20 Kg a year until teams are say 100-150Kg less than now with just tweaking it every year pushing towards more lighter more dynamic players but that has to be in combination with forcing players to play longer rather than certain players that know they can stay as big as they want because they only have to play between 20 - 45 mins a game

To have a weight limit there'd need to be a weigh in. When would you weigh them?It's unfeasible to do a weigh in on the day of the game. It could and would lead to cancellations.

Teams would need to agree with players what weight they should be on the scales. People can cut up to 2 stone in 48 hours and rehydrate it back in in 24 and players would cut weight rather than walk around at a pre defined weight because they would see it as an advantage to be heavier.

During and after a weight cut there is less cerebrospinal fluid which would lead to more concussions in a sport like rugby.

Out of interest why is it unfeasable on the day of matches at pro level? Why couldn't you do it in the changing rooms before matches and any team found to be over gets hit by a 20 point penalty in the league?

[Big D]

I dont follow the logic, lighter players would mean less weight behind contact so getting hit with shoulders, elbows and knees would have less force and possibly less concusion, il be honest I got my degree in concussion science from watching the John Beattie special while playing a game on my phone

But something has to be done to try and cut the size of players down, listening to some players talk about the lifelong pain they have after is crap but the game has a duty of care to the top players to try and change the game to try and make bulking up unneccasry to play and for me the only answer is to enforce a weight limit for teams.

You could start pretty high like the average french team now and lower 10 - 20 Kg a year until teams are say 100-150Kg less than now with just tweaking it every year pushing towards more lighter more dynamic players but that has to be in combination with forcing players to play longer rather than certain players that know they can stay as big as they want because they only have to play between 20 - 45 mins a game

To have a weight limit there'd need to be a weigh in. When would you weigh them?It's unfeasible to do a weigh in on the day of the game. It could and would lead to cancellations.

Teams would need to agree with players what weight they should be on the scales. People can cut up to 2 stone in 48 hours and rehydrate it back in in 24 and players would cut weight rather than walk around at a pre defined weight because they would see it as an advantage to be heavier.

During and after a weight cut there is less cerebrospinal fluid which would lead to more concussions in a sport like rugby.

Out of interest why is it unfeasable on the day of matches at pro level? Why couldn't you do it in the changing rooms before matches and any team found to be over gets hit by a 20 point penalty in the league?

Because players need to eat and fuel appropriately before games. And stadia could be full before a big game and 2 guys are over weight and it creates an issue. There would also be guys dehydrating until the last minute if there were weight concerns. IMO of course.

Imposing conditions around players weights (other than rough ones assigned by clubs) is adding another thing for players to manage and we need to make it easier on their bodies.

Players are going to get hurt in games. It has been happening since day dot. We need to find the balance between reducing the injury count but not reducing the game to Rugby league where it is "just" 13 generic looking folk on the pitch.

Global calendar, max no. Of games for players, and set rules around contact in training is the way to go imo.

[Which Tyler]

If you want weight limits (I don't think it's a good solution); then you need the weight-in to be as accurate to the playing weight as possible.
Do the weight-in after the warm-up and apply any punishment on the score-board ahead of KO.