Canes Captain snubs All Blacks!

[rowan]

Shocker!

The All Blacks are furious after the captain of Super Rugby side Hurricanes snubbed a call-up to the national team because he is signing for Wasps in an attempt to make England's World Cup squad.

The world champions are understood to believe Brad Shields has been given sufficient encouragement by England to reject Steve Hansen's request for him to play against France last week and defect to the Premiership next summer. However, there has been no direct contact between England and Shields, nor has he been given any guarantees.

The place in Hansen's side became available when veteran flanker Jerome Kaino sustained a knee ligament injury but the New Zealand head coach was left stunned when the uncapped Shields, a former All Blacks Under-20s player, revealed that he intended to join Wasps at the end of the next Super Rugby season, which would render him unavailable for New Zealand's 2019 World Cup campaign.

England have long been aware that the 26-year-old qualifies to play for them through his parents, which means he could be fast-tracked into the England squad at the start of next season if Eddie Jones chooses to select him.

At 6ft 4in and 17st 7lb, Shields is a versatile forward who is equally comfortable at No8 and flanker, although the All Blacks privately believe Jones may direct him towards the blindside berth occupied by Chris Robshaw.

The All Blacks were aware of Shields' aspiration to play Test rugby but they are infuriated that he could now be facing them in an England shirt.

Shields was part of the New Zealand Under-20s side who won the world championship in 2011 and who form the basis of the current All Blacks team. Team-mates included Beauden Barrett, Charles Piutau, Sam Cane, Brodie Retallick and Codie Taylor. Long seen as a future All Black, Shields played well for the Barbarians side who drew 31-31 with South Africa, and played for the Hurricanes against the British and Irish Lions last summer.

His signing would be a coup for highly ambitious Wasps, who appear to have beaten competition from Saracens and Leicester, as well as Northampton, who were also interested until they signed former Springbok Heinrich Brussow to fill the gap left by Louis Picamoles' departure.

Shields' switch of allegiance is not without precedent. The England squad boasts two New Zealand-born players - captain Dylan Hartley and Mako Vunipola, while another, Ben Te'o, is injured.



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11945394

[zer0]

Former captain, I dare say. He'll be spending a lot of 2018 on the bench, I think.

[rowan]

Born in Masterton, Wairarapa province, backside of the Rimutaka Mountains from Wellington. What's his connection to England, I wonder? He just decides at age 26 he's prefers to play for England than NZ??

[cashead]

It says it in the article - "qualifies through parents."

[Mellsblue]

Both parents are English, with unverified rumours they both live in the motherland.

[Spy]

I don't blame Shields, really. He's played pretty well for several years without getting an All Blacks call up, and it sounded like this was an injury enforced request, so no real sign that his long term prospects are on the up.

Piutau leaving was annoying, as was Luatua. Shields hadn't been given enough love to expect him to pine unrequited for an All Black jersey. Good luck to him. He's a good player.

[rowan]

Still, representing the All Blacks used to be the pinnacle of every New Zealand rugby players' career; the dream of every Kiwi boy who ran about on muddy field passing the oval ball. This is the equivalent of a professional boxer turning down a shot at the title he's spent his entire career working toward. Maybe that's just me still stuck in a 20th century mindset, but back in the day Shields would have dropped everything and headed to Europe pronto to have his chance in the sacred black jersey. If he held his place in the team he'd become a legend, and if he didn't he'd still have been referred to as an All Black for the rest of his days, which is about as close to royalty as you can get in New Zealand . . .

[Spy]

I'm sure he wanted to play for the All Blacks, just probably had mentally flagged his chances. He made his Super Rugby debut in 2012, and there was speculation about him as a potential All Black right from the start, but he's never been selected. First he's waiting in line behind veterans like Kaino, Messam and Vito and can't break through. Then Luatua gets selected ahead of him. Then Liam Squire and Elliot Dixon. Now Fifita, a much younger man, gets the nod ahead of him. At some point you'd figure that the selectors are just not that into you.

I agree it'd be great if he played for the All Blacks. I guess the gist of the article, opening with the line "The All Blacks are furious after the captain of Super Rugby side Hurricanes snubbed a call-up to the national team" kind of annoyed me. Select him or don't select him, but don't get stroppy when it turns out a player you've overlooked for his entire career stops moping at home by the phone and looks elsewhere. I can see his point.

[morepork]

That "story" is lifted straight from The Telegraph. The NZ Herald is a glorified Woman's Weekly these days and lurves a stupid attention grabbing headline.

[rowan]

NZ media has never been particularly pro-active. I remember interviewing the Pumas management in 97 on whether they wanted to get into the Tri Nations (they did) and the PA failed to pick it up, then got annoyed with me when I inquired why. So it doesn't surprise me the British press would pick this story up first. I still find it hard to comprehend that an NZ born-&-bred rugby player would give up an All Blacks jersey for the mere prospect of representing a country he's presumably never lived in. I think this is a fairly clear-cut case of importing talent.

[morepork]

Imported by whom? Wasps? They will be paying his wages.

[rowan]

Yeh, I see the British press was already onto this as far back is August, claiming Shields was being enticed with offers of around 350K pounds, which must be about a million NZ dollars. Unlikely the NZRFU could match that with his Super Rugby contract. & there might have been a proviso behind the scenes that he make himself available for England as part of the bargain.

[Puja]

Frankly, I'm not sure how much use we'll have for him. We've got some excellent young flankers coming through in the next couple of years and, while New Zealand aren't exactly short of competition in the back row, you've been looking around at 6 and 8 options the last few years and have done a lot of experimentation vs the likes of Argentina, Japan, USA, etc and yet he hasn't even been involved in a wider squad. So we're not exactly waiting for his appearance with bated breath.

Plus the last two Super Rugby EQP that you sent north were Symons and Francis and they've been average to say the least, so I think we've kind of cooled on the idea that having played in New Zealand is the be-all and end-all.

He'll probably get a cap or two, but I don't expect that England have actually bothered to induce him over. He's just got a fat contract with Wasps and will hope to catch the eye.

Puja

[Spy]

He'll probably get a cap or two, but I don't expect that England have actually bothered to induce him over. He's just got a fat contract with Wasps and will hope to catch the eye.

Agree. I suspect the Wasps money is by far a bigger reason to move to the UK, rather a desire to play international rugby regardless of in what jersey.

[Puja]

Plus Premiership clubs get money from the RFU for fielding English qualified players, so I suspect that his contract stipulates that he must remain English qualified (or at the least he's got a bonus based on that). So even if he's got no real intention of playing for England, he's got an incentive to turn down a one-off pity call-up for an uncapped game against a France XV.

Puja

[Spy]

That makes sense - thanks.

[Puja]

That makes sense - thanks.

It's a rule that Eddie Jones has used to take the piss before. We had a training camp last year while the Premiership semi-finals were on and all the likely scrum-halves were with teams still involved in the semis. So Eddie calls up Willi Heinz who is steady, but let's face it, never going to play an international. Now I'd imagine that Willi is aware that he's just going there to be a passing machine and fill a hole in the moves and this excursion is actually a colossal waste of his time. However, if you turn down an England call-up of any kind, then you are no longer counted as an EQP. So Heinz has to go and Eddie gets someone to play scrum-half while he works with players who actually have an international future.

Puja

[rowan]

Plus Premiership clubs get money from the RFU for fielding English qualified players, so I suspect that his contract stipulates that he must remain English qualified (or at the least he's got a bonus based on that). So even if he's got no real intention of playing for England, he's got an incentive to turn down a one-off pity call-up for an uncapped game against a France XV.

Yes, this is the scent trail I was following. Totally makes sense now. Cheers.

[rowan]

Is it also true that Premiership rules state only two "foreign" players are allowed on the pitch for one club at any time? But as an English eligible player Shields will be exempt from the rule.

[padprop]

Is it also true that Premiership rules state only two "foreign" players are allowed on the pitch for one club at any time? But as an English eligible player Shields will be exempt from the rule.

I believe those are the japanese rules. Free-for-all over here, but as Puja says, there are financial incentives.

[Puja]

Is it also true that Premiership rules state only two "foreign" players are allowed on the pitch for one club at any time? But as an English eligible player Shields will be exempt from the rule.

I believe those are the japanese rules. Free-for-all over here, but as Puja says, there are financial incentives.

Actually, there is still a rule that you can only have two "foreign players", but foreign doesn't include any Europeans, Kolpak (so all South Africans) or anyone who can claim European ancestry. So it's basically picking on Argentines, Kiwis and Aussies who can't dredge up a European grandparent.

Puja

[Digby]

Is it also true that Premiership rules state only two "foreign" players are allowed on the pitch for one club at any time? But as an English eligible player Shields will be exempt from the rule.

I believe those are the japanese rules. Free-for-all over here, but as Puja says, there are financial incentives.

Actually, there is still a rule that you can only have two "foreign players", but foreign doesn't include any Europeans, Kolpak (so all South Africans) or anyone who can claim European ancestry. So it's basically picking on Argentines, Kiwis and Aussies who can't dredge up a European grandparent.

Puja

This rules might change in the near future

[Puja]

And, after all that, it turns out that he didn't "snub the All Blacks" but instead told them that he had already signed with Wasps and so wouldn't be available for 2019, and NZ withdrew the offer for him to join up with the squad. No story at all.

Puja

[rowan]

Not sure about that. The reports clearly indicate he ruled himself out, and from what I have gathered in this discussion the most likely reason for that is Wasps wanted him only on the proviso he would not count as a foreign import, because they are only allowed to field two in any given match.

[cashead]

I'm sure he wanted to play for the All Blacks, just probably had mentally flagged his chances. He made his Super Rugby debut in 2012, and there was speculation about him as a potential All Black right from the start, but he's never been selected. First he's waiting in line behind veterans like Kaino, Messam and Vito and can't break through. Then Luatua gets selected ahead of him. Then Liam Squire and Elliot Dixon. Now Fifita, a much younger man, gets the nod ahead of him. At some point you'd figure that the selectors are just not that into you.

I agree it'd be great if he played for the All Blacks. I guess the gist of the article, opening with the line "The All Blacks are furious after the captain of Super Rugby side Hurricanes snubbed a call-up to the national team" kind of annoyed me. Select him or don't select him, but don't get stroppy when it turns out a player you've overlooked for his entire career stops moping at home by the phone and looks elsewhere. I can see his point.

Pretty much. He ain't getting any younger and he'd probably done enough to warrant a call-up by now, but has continuously been overlooked. He's pretty much a victim of the fact that A) we have an all-time great who is the incumbent at 8 already and b) the blindside stocks are rather healthy. He'd also be fairly aware of the plight of Pauliasi Manu, who has never been capped, but is now ineligible to play for anyone other than the All Blacks, so if he'd taken that tour spot, and not been capped, he'd be in the same boat.

He's got a finite amount of time to earn his money, so can't say I blame him for taking the Brit-dollars offered to him, and if he gets a test cap or two out of the deal, then more power to him.