All Blacks vs Wales - More like Fails, lol

[cashead]

Wales
1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Jake Ball
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Captain)
6. Aaron Shingler
7. Josh Navidi
8. Taulape Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Steffan Evans
12. Owen Williams
13. Scott Williams
14. Hallam Amos
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Wyn Jones
18. Leon Brown
19. Cory Hill
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Gareth Davies
22. Rhys Priestland
23. Jamie Roberts


All Blacks
1. Kane Hames
2. Codie Taylor
3. Nepo Laulala
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
5. Samuel Whitelock (Captain)
6. Liam Squire
7. Sam Cane
8. Luke Whitelock
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Rieko Ioane
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Ryan Crotty
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Damian McKenzie

16. Nathan Harris
17. Wyatt Crockett
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
19. Scott Barrett
20. Matt Todd
21. TJ Perenara
22. Lima Sopoaga
23. Anton Lienert-Brown

[Puja]

That Welsh side is painful and not for the ABs. No Lee, no Warburton, Tipuric not fit to start, no North, no Williams, no Davies, very little hope. You should get the usual brave start and then pull away without having to be at your best.

Puja

[rowan]

I mentioned on another thread that Murray Mexted and everyone else born the year Wales last beat the All Blacks will be up for retirement in 2018! What else was going on in the world back then? Churchill was still PM in Britain - where a new queen had just been crowned, Eisenhower had just replaced Truman as US president, JFK had just got married, and Stalin had just died. Meanwhile, the Korean War ended & the Indo-China War began (precursor to Vietnam), while a revolution had just kicked off in Cuba. In football, Uruguay were the reigning FIFA World Cup holders, but Brazil & Germany had yet to win the trophy (there had only been 4 tournaments thus far). Pele was still a kid in short pants, while Maradona hadn't even been thought of yet. England, meanwhile, took a 3-6 licking from Puskas' Hungary at home. & Tenzing Norgay carried Ed Hillary to the top of Mt Everest. All this occurred the same year Wales last beat the All Blacks!

[zer0]

I'm looking forward to seeing Whitelock as captain. Apparently the Welsh scum shouldn't be up to much with its current personnel. If that is indeed the case, then I'm hoping to see him ram home the scrummaging advantage, just like he did with the mauls in the Crusaders/Blues match.

[cashead]

From what I've heard, Francis is a decent loosehead, but not up to much as a tighthead.

Hames tends to build up into his work, and gains parity or dominance after 2 or 3 scrums.

[Puja]

From what I've heard, Francis is a decent loosehead, but not up to much as a tighthead.

Hames tends to build up into his work, and gains parity or dominance after 2 or 3 scrums.

I think you may have confused Francis with someone else - he's a tighthead and nothing but. He's not actually too bad in the scrum, but he is somewhat... let's say he's somewhat on the rotund side of professional rugby players to be polite. If you keep him busy in the scrums, he's not going to be sprinting to the breakdowns.

I'd actually say you'd be better targetting them out wide rather than attacking the scrum - they'll be solid and compact there and their tight 5 is only missing one player from first choice. However, Navidi and Shingler are no Tipuric and Warburton and, even with the quality and form that Faletau's been showing, you should be able to outmatch them at wide ruck. Quick ball and go wide from one touchline to another, and that scratch backline is going to have trouble keeping the defence together.

Real shame actually, as a full-strength Wales vs NZ match for both sides would've been a very interesting game.

Puja

[Lizard]

Who is going to be in charge of tackling Reiko?

[zer0]

I'd actually say you'd be better targetting them out wide rather than attacking the scrum...

[Puja]

Fair point!

Puja

[rowan]

All Blacks by 30.

[cashead]

Andy Haden did nothing wrong.

[rowan]

& Bob Deans definitely scored! Definitely!!

[rowan]

Meanwhile, the All Blacks will be seeking to extend their winning run against Wales to 30 tomorrow. They played 4 times in the 60s with the All Blacks winning by an average of 13 points, just twice in the 70s with the winning average just 2, 5 times in the 80s with the winning average sky-rocketing to 38, only twice in the 90s (amazingly) with the average down to 30, 8 times in the 2000s with the averaging falling still further to 24, and 8 times so far this decade with the average at 23. So the gap is obviously a lot wider in the professional era that it was in the genuinely amateur era, but it clearly maxed out in the shamateur period of the late 80s as Wales failed to make the transition as quickly as the Kiwis did at the dawn of the World Cup era.

[rowan]

Which begs the question: Why the obsession with Kiwi coaches? Sorry, but Wales just aren't going anywhere. Aside from their fairly static margins of defeat against the All Blacks this century (23 or 24 points), they've finished in the bottom half of the 6 Nations table 11 times out of 18 and finished dead last behind Italy on one occasion too. They've also started the year ranked 8th, 9th or 10th on eight occasions since their inception 14 years ago, and have yet to match their 3rd place finish at the inaugural World Cup, with a 4th, 2 quarter-finals and one elimination at the group stages.

The three New Zealanders being touted as leading candidates to succeed Warren Gatland as Wales coach http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-13947675

[scuzzaman]

Which begs the question: Why the obsession with Kiwi coaches? ...

RWC 2011
RWC 2015
WRRankings 2900 days uninterrupted, and counting, at No 1

Could be a factor.

Possibly

Maybe

Perhaps?

[rowan]

Sure, we're all aware of Kiwi expertise, but what has it done for Welsh rugby this century? is the actual question here. Being successful as a coach in a country which lives and breathes rugby doesn't necessarily translate into success with other national teams, as we've seen all too often. I mean, by your method of evaluation, I could go and coach Wales, since I'm actually a New Zealander (according to one of my passports). But I wouldn't wish that on the team, their fans nor the game of rugby itself!

[scuzzaman]

I'm not convinced you had much of a hand in any of the factors I listed, so I don't really see your point.

[rowan]

Well, we're even on that count. I'm perfectly aware of why the Welsh may look for redemption in the form of a New Zealand coach, though the stats I've presented, in some considerable detail, suggest that this simply hasn't been the magic solution they evidently thought it would be. But you've gone right past those stats and pointed out the obvious, which was a component of my hypothesis in the first place...

[cashead]

Hiring Kiwi coaches also saw an improvement in the fortunes of Ireland, who can now go into any game against anyone with a reasonable expectation of a win, Gatland's tenure with Wales has seen a few Grand Slams and respectable finishes at World Cups, and Vern Cotter laid the foundation for Scotland's upward swing in quality as a team.

[scuzzaman]

Well, we're even on that count. I'm perfectly aware of why the Welsh may look for redemption in the form of a New Zealand coach, though the stats I've presented, in some considerable detail, suggest that this simply hasn't been the magic solution they evidently thought it would be. But you've gone right past those stats and pointed out the obvious, which was a component of my hypothesis in the first place...

You can't help looking for a fight, can you?

Just to illustrate the paucity of your argumentation (I dunno, maybe you're drunk or just lazy), here's what you actually said:

I mean, by your method of evaluation, I could go and coach Wales, since I'm actually a New Zealander (according to one of my passports).

Well, no, you couldn't, because it wasn't about being a New Zealander, it was about being a New Zealander rugby coach with success in the toughest domestic rugby culture in the world, i.e. New Zealand.

I'll leave it to you to figure out which part you're missing, since you apparently still haven't figured that out yet.

[rowan]

I think you're the one looking for the fight, and I think you're the one who hasn't figured out the point yet. Again, you're only pointing out the obvious regarding New Zealand coaches. But you have failed to deal with the statistics I presented, which show Wales has not improved overall under New Zealand coaches over the past two decades. So why don't you address those statistics, which are the basis of my hypothesis, instead of taking a haughty and combative approach to what was a perfectly harmless observation fully supported by data?

Aside from their fairly static margins of defeat against the All Blacks this century (23 or 24 points), they've finished in the bottom half of the 6 Nations table 11 times out of 18 and finished dead last behind Italy on one occasion too. They've also started the year ranked 8th, 9th or 10th on eight occasions since their inception 14 years ago, and have yet to match their 3rd place finish at the inaugural World Cup, with a 4th, 2 quarter-finals and one elimination at the group stages.

In fact, there were 6 New Zealand coaches at the last World Cup but aside from the All Blacks themselves, Georgia was the only one that did well (& let's not even talk about Canada)! This is where it matters most, of course. In fact, when Wales finished 4th at the 2011 World Cup it was one of the few occasions in the past two decades they actually had a Welshman, rather than a Kiwi, at the helm.

[zer0]

In fact, when Wales finished 4th at the 2011 World Cup it was one of the few occasions in the past two decades they actually had a Welshman, rather than a Kiwi, at the helm.

Warren Gatland was their coach in 2011. The last time Wales had a full-time Welsh coach was the 2006/7 Gyppocaust.

[cashead]

Yeah, Gatland has been at the helm since 2008.

[rowan]

Yes, you're right. Must have been thinking of 2013 when Gatland was with the Lions.

[morepork]

SBW ...jesus.