RugbyRebels

A bit mental here where we usually have 1 or 2 differences i think some of the options we have are mental

Loose Head

Dickinson - back in December
Marfo - Came from no where to not look out of place
Bhatti - A very similar player to Fagerson in the loose and holding his own
Sutherland - Will need to work hard to get near the starting team if Marfo and Bhatti stay fit
G Reid - Injured and probabbly out of favour
R Grant - No where close but could still be an emergency call up

Hooker
McInally - his shirt now
Brown - Harsh to lose it but can still offer lots
Turner - I like his aggression in the loose but McInally offers a bit more , needs a solid season under his belt
Ford - 119 caps, gets injured and cant seem him getting another cap if the other 3 are fit
Cochrane - Emergency cover but can hold his own
PAt Mcarthur - A Glasgow stalwart but doesnt have the size to step up

TH
Z Fag - Up there with Tad with his loose play, needs a better scrum coach to help get rid of the silly little penalties
WP Nel - Injured again but is still solid in the scrum, would probabbly have him against the english to try and prevent needless penas
Bergan - Not my cup of tea
Welsh - A bit like Reid, my gut feeling is too heavy and doesnt offer the skillset in the loose to get in, with Scotland not dropping the ball every 3 passes we dont tend to need a scrummaging TH and we need more in the loose, still think he will get another shot as come 6N I think Berghan is done

2nd Rows
J Gray - For me right up their with Itoje as a top class 2nd row
Toolis - Finally getting a shot and an out and out finisher for me
Gilchrist - Had my doubts about him for years but a bit like McInally seems to be thriving under Cockers as much as Fordy is struggling
R Gray - Will need to fight for his shirt back
Swinson - A hard working player if a bit short
Cummings - The heir apparent for me, we really are just waiting for him to get a chance , got a feeling when he gets that shirt in about 3 - 4 years a crowbar will be needed to get it off him
Mackenzie - a bolter for the squad but seems to be going well under Cockers

Flanker
Barclay - Has the shirt
Bradbury - An idiot who has set back his career by a year, will probabbly get the shirt after the next WC when Barclay retires
Watson - Has the shirt
Hardie - Still in hiatus so no idea whyear , needs at is happening
Wilson - Has the shirt as he has the skills if not the size #
Harley - Not sure hee will get any more caps
L Hamilton - Could fight his way into the 23 with Hardie being nowhere and Watson being the only out and out 7

No 8
CDP - Has to be around the 23 , but would need to step up alot to get near the starting 15
Straus - The 8 most of us want but not sure we wikll see him
Denton - Not got the skills to get near the team
Ashe - needs to stay fit but if fit is around the 23

SH
Price - has the shirt , no one near him for me
Pyrgos - to much like Laidlaw, needs to speed up and against japan didnt live up to the hype of a general, he doesnt fit Glasgow or Scotland, kinda think George Horne will be backup to Price within a season
Greeg - I still think he has a few caps in him but how many depends on how much he can fight his instinct to slow the game dwon, Price just throws the ball out and expects everyone to be there, Greeg likes to be more in command,
George Horne - I reckon by the end of the 6N this boy is capped

FH
Russell -
Horne - I like him at 12
Jackson
A Hastings - Think he is a couple of development tours away from challenging but will be the main man at Glasgow next season so could well be on the summer tour
or dear


Wings
Byron M - Wow , took his chance and has to be near the squad
Seymore - Had a bad autumn but needs to back to his club, gets some confidence back but cant see him making the 23 for me
Maitland - Probabbly holds on to his place on the wing as he covers FB
Lee Jones - For me one of our best wingers, stands up well even with his smaller frame and works hard when he has the ball
Visser - Needs to get his place back at harlequins
Fife - Emergency cover
Hoyland - Emergency emergency cover

Centres
Dunbar - will take us to the world cup but has a strong challenge from Horne
Horne - For me really added to the Scotland attack as suddenly Price had options both side of the scrum, more stable and sensible than Finn
Scott - I think he is injured but for me still a class act, needs to get his shirt at Glaws and then wait his turn
Taylor - Unlucky to get injured as he makes my 23 ,
Jones - His try rate speaks for himself
M Bennet - A quality player who really struggled the last few months at Glasgow, hoping like so many others will adapt to Cockers and leap forward, could easily play his way into the scotland team and Toonie could well have left and right centres rather than inside and out
Harries - Alot of work to get up that pecking order but needs another shot to see what he can offer

Full back
Hogg
Maitland
R 100 points Jackson
Kinghorn - A good player but needs to mature a little bit
Tonks - Played well against Australia - Dont think we have seen the last of him



Im not sure how but apart from 1 or 2 players i think that gives us a pretty decent squad of guys that know how to play

My starting 15

Marfo
McInally
Nell - if fit
J Gray
R Gray
Barclay
Watson
Wilson
Price
Russel
L Jones
Horne
H Jones
Maitland
Hogg


My bench is very much in the mould of finishers, i want guys to come on and do damage to tired bodies, i want the itensity upped and to blow them off the park
Toolis, Zander, ashe Taylor and Byron all have the ability to cause trouble


Dickinson
Turner
Z Fag
Toolis
Ashe
Pyrgos
Taylor
Byron M

No Mark Bennett?

Don't want to jump from one extreme to the other but after the Fiji game a lot of us were ruing our lack of depth but it was early days in the Toony regime... We do seriously need back up at 10 though.

Assuming all fit and firing I'd go for :

Dickinson
McInnally
Nel
Gray
Toolis (would rotate with J Gray for the bigger packs)
Barclay
Watson
CDP

Price
Russell
Seymour
Taylor/Dunbar
Jones
Maitland
Hogg

Brown
Fagerson
Reid
J Gray
Wilson
Laidlaw (banking on him or Hogg to cover 10 in an emergency)
Taylor
McGuigan


But then again I could also select Gilchrist and Horne in that 23 as well.. It is incredibly difficult. I appreciate he hasn't seen much time for Scotland but if you ask me - Ruaridh Jackson is having the best season of his career. But how do you fit him in?

Assuming the injury crisis eases up. Scottish rugby is in a very good place ahead of the 6N.

BTW I still think the balance of the back row is wrong despite the performances. There is no natural carrier but all 3 of Barclay, Watson and Wilson are excellent in their own right. We just have too many good & on-form players available to fit in. A nice selection headache to have though.... Watson is the best 7 in the NH, Wilson is an utter f*cking nuisance and despite the 2-3 pens a game he inevitably concedes the amount of disruption he causes is unreal. Barclay is the captain.
I opted to drop Wilson for CDP. I think he had an excellent AI and was punching holes and looking for offloads. Wilson, Watson and Barclay can't do that. But then again you could just as easily bench him. Depends on whether you want that in the last 25/30 or from the start.

Either way Wales will shit their breeks if they're trailing and see Fagerson, J Gray, CDP, Taylor, etc warming up ready to run at their gaps.

sharvey44 wrote:No Mark Bennett?

Ahhh knew i was missing him and i suppose A hastings needs to be considered as well

Here’s a not too improbable stat - if we beat wales by more than 15 points and Ireland lose in Paris, we’ll be up to 3rd in the world rankings.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Don't want to jump from one extreme to the other but after the Fiji game a lot of us were ruing our lack of depth but it was early days in the Toony regime... We do seriously need back up at 10 though.

Assuming all fit and firing I'd go for :

Dickinson
McInnally
Nel
Gray
Toolis (would rotate with J Gray for the bigger packs)
Barclay
Watson
CDP

Price
Russell
Seymour
Taylor/Dunbar
Jones
Maitland
Hogg

Brown
Fagerson
Reid
J Gray
Wilson
Laidlaw (banking on him or Hogg to cover 10 in an emergency)
Taylor
McGuigan


But then again I could also select Gilchrist and Horne in that 23 as well.. It is incredibly difficult. I appreciate he hasn't seen much time for Scotland but if you ask me - Ruaridh Jackson is having the best season of his career. But how do you fit him in?

Assuming the injury crisis eases up. Scottish rugby is in a very good place ahead of the 6N.

Surely you mean RGray on bench?

Whilst Marfo and Bhatti have done well I still have my doubts over them when it comes to the bigger packs. But it is a nice quandary and Bhatti is still finding his way.

I see the point about Toolis off the bench but Gilchrist was strong off bench v NZ. I do think that RGray could be handy in the type of game plan we are looking to implement.

I'd go with the following for the 6N:
Dell
Rambo
Nel
Toolis
JGray
Barclay
Watson
CdP

Price
Russell
Maitland/Taylor
Dunbar
Jones
Seymour
Hogg

Marfo
Brown
ZJRF
GrayR or GG if Gray hasn't shown form
Wilson
Laidlaw
Horne
Taylor/Maitland

Aye J Gray on bench sorry.

whatisthejava wrote:A bit mental here where we usually have 1 or 2 differences i think some of the options we have are mental

Loose Head

Dickinson - back in December
Marfo - Came from no where to not look out of place
Bhatti - A very similar player to Fagerson in the loose and holding his own
Sutherland - Will need to work hard to get near the starting team if Marfo and Bhatti stay fit
G Reid - Injured and probabbly out of favour
R Grant - No where close but could still be an emergency call up

Hooker
McInally - his shirt now
Brown - Harsh to lose it but can still offer lots
Turner - I like his aggression in the loose but McInally offers a bit more , needs a solid season under his belt
Ford - 119 caps, gets injured and cant seem him getting another cap if the other 3 are fit
Cochrane - Emergency cover but can hold his own
PAt Mcarthur - A Glasgow stalwart but doesnt have the size to step up

TH
Z Fag - Up there with Tad with his loose play, needs a better scrum coach to help get rid of the silly little penalties
WP Nel - Injured again but is still solid in the scrum, would probabbly have him against the english to try and prevent needless penas
Bergan - Not my cup of tea
Welsh - A bit like Reid, my gut feeling is too heavy and doesnt offer the skillset in the loose to get in, with Scotland not dropping the ball every 3 passes we dont tend to need a scrummaging TH and we need more in the loose, still think he will get another shot as come 6N I think Berghan is done

2nd Rows
J Gray - For me right up their with Itoje as a top class 2nd row
Toolis - Finally getting a shot and an out and out finisher for me
Gilchrist - Had my doubts about him for years but a bit like McInally seems to be thriving under Cockers as much as Fordy is struggling
R Gray - Will need to fight for his shirt back
Swinson - A hard working player if a bit short
Cummings - The heir apparent for me, we really are just waiting for him to get a chance , got a feeling when he gets that shirt in about 3 - 4 years a crowbar will be needed to get it off him
Mackenzie - a bolter for the squad but seems to be going well under Cockers

Flanker
Barclay - Has the shirt
Bradbury - An idiot who has set back his career by a year, will probabbly get the shirt after the next WC when Barclay retires
Watson - Has the shirt
Hardie - Still in hiatus so no idea whyear , needs at is happening
Wilson - Has the shirt as he has the skills if not the size #
Harley - Not sure hee will get any more caps

No 8
CDP - Has to be around the 23 , but would need to step up alot to get near the starting 15
Straus - The 8 most of us want but not sure we wikll see him
Denton - Not got the skills to get near the team
Ashe - needs to stay fit but if fit is around the 23

SH
Price - has the shirt , no one near him for me
Pyrgos - to much like Laidlaw, needs to speed up and against japan didnt live up to the hype of a general, he doesnt fit Glasgow or Scotland, kinda think George Horne will be backup to Price within a season
Greeg - I still think he has a few caps in him but how many depends on how much he can fight his instinct to slow the game dwon, Price just throws the ball out and expects everyone to be there, Greeg likes to be more in command,
George Horne - I reckon by the end of the 6N this boy is capped

FH
Russell -
Horne - I like him at 12
Jackson
A Hastings - Think he is a couple of development tours away from challenging but will be the main man at Glasgow next season so could well be on the summer tour
or dear


Wings
Byron M - Wow , took his chance and has to be near the squad
Seymore - Had a bad autumn but needs to back to his club, gets some confidence back but cant see him making the 23 for me
Maitland - Probabbly holds on to his place on the wing as he covers FB
Lee Jones - For me one of our best wingers, stands up well even with his smaller frame and works hard when he has the ball
Visser - Needs to get his place back at harlequins
Fife - Emergency cover
Hoyland - Emergency emergency cover

Centres
Dunbar - will take us to the world cup but has a strong challenge from Horne
Horne - For me really added to the Scotland attack as suddenly Price had options both side of the scrum, more stable and sensible than Finn
Scott - I think he is injured but for me still a class act, needs to get his shirt at Glaws and then wait his turn
Taylor - Unlucky to get injured as he makes my 23 ,
Jones - His try rate speaks for himself
M Bennet - A quality player who really struggled the last few months at Glasgow, hoping like so many others will adapt to Cockers and leap forward, could easily play his way into the scotland team and Toonie could well have left and right centres rather than inside and out

Full back
Hogg
Maitland
R 100 points Jackson
Kinghorn - A good player but needs to mature a little bit



Im not sure how but apart from 1 or 2 players i think that gives us a pretty decent squad of guys that know how to play

My starting 15

Marfo
McInally
Nell - if fit
J Gray
R Gray
Barclay
Watson
Wilson
Price
Russel
L Jones
Horne
H Jones
Maitland
Hogg


My bench is very much in the mould of finishers, i want guys to come on and do damage to tired bodies, i want the itensity upped and to blow them off the park
Toolis, Zander, ashe Taylor and Byron all have the ability to cause trouble


Dickinson
Turner
Z Fag
Toolis
Ashe
Pyrgos
Taylor
Byron M

Very good, you`ll be pleased you didn`t cock up posting that and have to do it all again..?

Very surprised to see continuing with Marfo and Bhatti in their 23s. Or even Dell.

Working on the assumption that the other guys won't return to fitness or will be injured?

The pecking order is clearly Dickinson, Reid/Sutherland, Dell, Marfo, Bhatti, Allan.

I think Dell is the worst scrummager of the bunch and first name to miss out.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Very surprised to see continuing with Marfo and Bhatti in their 23s. Or even Dell.

Working on the assumption that the other guys won't return to fitness or will be injured?

The pecking order is clearly Dickinson, Reid/Sutherland, Dell, Marfo, Bhatti, Allan.

I think Dell is the worst scrummager of the bunch and first name to miss out.

we dont know if Dickinson is coming back the same player or can play the toonie style, great believer in if you play well you keep the shirt, if Dickinson wants it he has to take it off Marfo at edinburgh first

Added, Tonks, harres and L Hamilton above

whatisthejava wrote:Added, Tonks, harres and L Hamilton above

Ritchie could be added to that list.

whatisthejava wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Very surprised to see continuing with Marfo and Bhatti in their 23s. Or even Dell.

Working on the assumption that the other guys won't return to fitness or will be injured?

The pecking order is clearly Dickinson, Reid/Sutherland, Dell, Marfo, Bhatti, Allan.

I think Dell is the worst scrummager of the bunch and first name to miss out.

we dont know if Dickinson is coming back the same player or can play the toonie style, great believer in if you play well you keep the shirt, if Dickinson wants it he has to take it off Marfo at edinburgh first

Are we talking about Ali Dickinson? He made his name as a prop due to his loose play. Only later in his career did he become a fantastic scrummager at 1.

I do take your point though. My team is optimistic & based on everyone fit and firing. Dicko, Ford & Nel with J Gray & AN OTHER have shoved around a lot of big packs. With McInnally's performances i'm less concerned about Ford but the other 3 have big roles to play between now and the WC.

As Much as I like Laidlaw, I don’t think he fits into Toonies Scotland. If the plan is to play 80 minutes of high speed mentalness, we need to play 80 minutes of high speed mentalness. The final 20 minutes is where that game plan will probably pay the highest dividends. Bringing on steady Eddie won’t do that. Fast track wee turbo Horne.

I'd be happy to see turbo if that's the way they want to close out the match although I'd certainly be taking Laidlaw over Pyrgos.

Laidlaw has been really good off the bench playing at a high tempo before. There have been a couple of times when he’s been at his most hesitant, we give Pyrgos a chance (who then isn’t very good) and then Laidlaw comes off the bench looking great.

I really like the idea of him being able to do both, but slow it down if necessary, as well as having another strong leader and goal kicker on the field at 80 minutes.

Pyrgos is done for me. Keeping Laidlaw’s shirt warm while Turb gets some more experience.

OptimisticJock wrote:I'd be happy to see turbo if that's the way they want to close out the match although I'd certainly be taking Laidlaw over Pyrgos.

Aye, point taken. Also, I guess if you play another attacking halfback on the bench it does limit our ability to change the game plan. That being said, I have every faith in Price’s ability to close out a close game.

Early Laidlaw would have been ideal for our current game. He is capable of playing a really fast game, I think it was Just trained out of him.

I've always thought captaincy was what slowed him down.

That too perhaps.

He’d have to be really thick to have not seen what’s happened with Price at 9 in this short period and adjust his game to what Twonsends Scotland are doing.

ember wrote:I've always thought captaincy was what slowed him down.

Fair call, I’ve just seen that happen to so many of our scrum halves when they ascend to Scotland. It happened to both Blair and Cus as well. Maybe I’m being harsh and imagining it, it is after all a shite sight easier to play a faster game at club level than at national.

Ha ha turbo...he would probably get a stiffy reading this.

Always felt that the last few scotland coaches have leaned on the SH to be the little general on the field, and have instructed them to slow it down , to stay composed, i think Laidlaw may well be able to get in the squad but for that to happen he is going to have to remember that its go go go

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Very surprised to see continuing with Marfo and Bhatti in their 23s. Or even Dell.

Working on the assumption that the other guys won't return to fitness or will be injured?

The pecking order is clearly Dickinson, Reid/Sutherland, Dell, Marfo, Bhatti, Allan.

I think Dell is the worst scrummager of the bunch and first name to miss out.

we dont know if Dickinson is coming back the same player or can play the toonie style, great believer in if you play well you keep the shirt, if Dickinson wants it he has to take it off Marfo at edinburgh first

Are we talking about Ali Dickinson? He made his name as a prop due to his loose play. Only later in his career did he become a fantastic scrummager at 1.

I do take your point though. My team is optimistic & based on everyone fit and firing. Dicko, Ford & Nel with J Gray & AN OTHER have shoved around a lot of big packs. With McInnally's performances i'm less concerned about Ford but the other 3 have big roles to play between now and the WC.

We are still talking about a 34 year old who has played about 200min of rugby since June 2016. I would be considering giving him the long wind up to the next world cup. There s little to gain by him breaking down again. He'd definitely still be in my WC plans.

Reason I went for Dell is I think he did pretty well for us in the 6N and summer and his play in the loose is pretty good which seems to fit the game plan.