Stadium For Bath

[Puja]

Yes, it's another thread just for me and Which.

Bath have announced a company/campaign/bit of political fluffery to deliver the new stadium on the Rec. It's light on actual news and dates, but big on consultations, stakeholders, and trying to get ahead of as many problems as possible so that the only people complaining are the pointless three usual suspects.

http://www.stadiumforbath.com

The big consultation document is worth reading, partly to see what they actually intend, partly to admire the spin to try and get away from any complaints. It is slick and professional and bodes well for this attempt actually going through first time.

The one bad bit of news is that the old stadium designs from 2013 have been chucked out and they are starting again. I get the idea of starting afresh, particularly since they're apparently trying to address literally every complaint possible pre-emptively, but I did really like that design.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Seems... high on mouth, low on trousers.

Understandable, but uninteresting for the time being. I had hoped they'd be further along by in terms of plans by now TBH. I guess I'd rather it was done slowly and well, than quickly and badly - unlike most of Bruce's attempts to build a team.

[Oakboy]

I read the article on the BBC website and concluded that it was just a way for a new architect to earn a fat fee for a scheme that won't happen. As an outsider with little idea of what's really going on, I'd think that the only way forward is a fresh start on a fresh site but best of luck.

[Puja]

I read the article on the BBC website and concluded that it was just a way for a new architect to earn a fat fee for a scheme that won't happen. As an outsider with little idea of what's really going on, I'd think that the only way forward is a fresh start on a fresh site but best of luck.

The thing that you don't realise is that Bruce Craig is possessed of large amounts of money and a quite staggering ability to hold a grudge. That stadium is getting built if he has to contract murder every person in Pultney Parade to do it. Plus there's absolutely no other options for another site. Literally nowhere even remotely Bath outskirts - the closest possible option would be Keynsham, which is closer to Bristol.

There's interest on the other side as well - The Recreation Trust would fall apart without Bath's rent, the economy of Bath would take a huge hit without a city-centre stadium, a majority of citizens are in favour and a significant minority don't care. It's a few retired and rich arses, with nothing better to do with their time than protect their house prices against anything that might resemble change, doing stupid stuff like applying to get the stadium declared a village green.

I suspect that this big long pause, since the final court and tribunal result went in Bath's favour with no option to appeal, has been about gathering everything for the big push. It was all but done 4 years ago until that baffling Charity Tribunal appeal somehow succeeded and I suspect another setback would really set Craig into assassination mode. I'm hoping that everything has been planned and enough people got onside to render it inexorable this time.

Puja

[Banquo]

Wouldn't half be a shame if the city centre ground disappeared, but then its a shame that loads of amateur clubs disappeared from the top table as well.

[Which Tyler]

I've only just realised the biggest change in all of this - and presumably the reason why planning is going back to start again from scratch...

The new and final ruling on ownership of the land means that the East Stand doesn't need to be temporary anymore - so an entire stadium can be built, coherently, with room to fill in later, and with differing pitch surfaces. It can also be built as tall and as high a capacity as planning will allow; with as many in-built businesses (AKA conference facilities as well as shops etc) as planning allow - rather than restricted by charitable law anymore.

This means that design is a whole new ball game from anything that went before.

If the 3 fiends had let this go a few years ago, they'd have ended up with a stadium much more to their liking.

[Oakboy]

Wow, that's a huge irony!

[Which Tyler]

And we have a architect
https://www.bathrugby.com/news/grimshaw ... -for-bath/
Looks good, they've done big sports before (Wimbledon, Lords), they've done Bath before (Bath Spa and Bath Uni); and some of their previous projects look quite interesting.
This looks like a good announcement, assuming they still enough budget to design something interesting

[Puja]

I've only just realised the biggest change in all of this - and presumably the reason why planning is going back to start again from scratch...

The new and final ruling on ownership of the land means that the East Stand doesn't need to be temporary anymore - so an entire stadium can be built, coherently, with room to fill in later, and with differing pitch surfaces. It can also be built as tall and as high a capacity as planning will allow; with as many in-built businesses (AKA conference facilities as well as shops etc) as planning allow - rather than restricted by charitable law anymore.

This means that design is a whole new ball game from anything that went before.

If the 3 fiends had let this go a few years ago, they'd have ended up with a stadium much more to their liking.

I have to say, I am a little bit saddened by that. I liked the idea of a three-sided Rec that opened up to the city in the off-season - it felt like the obvious riposte to the naysayers claiming that part of the Rec was being locked away from the people of Bath, and I liked the idea of using it for Somerset cricket to play the occasional match as well.

A four sided Rec will be easier, and cheaper to run, but it does feel a bit more closed off.

Puja

[twitchy]

They should sink it into the ground like the nou camp.

[Puja]

They should sink it into the ground like the nou camp.

There's a fairly major river running right alongside; I'm not sure digging would work very well!

Puja

[Digby]

They should sink it into the ground like the nou camp.

There's a fairly major river running right alongside; I'm not sure digging would work very well!

Puja

It would be bath rugby in fairness

[Which Tyler]

I have to say, I am a little bit saddened by that. I liked the idea of a three-sided Rec that opened up to the city in the off-season - it felt like the obvious riposte to the naysayers claiming that part of the Rec was being locked away from the people of Bath, and I liked the idea of using it for Somerset cricket to play the occasional match as well.

A four sided Rec will be easier, and cheaper to run, but it does feel a bit more closed off.

I kinda agree TBH, though when is the last time Somerset played there?
I hope that they try to make it a horseshoe stadium + temporary stands anyway, though I doubt it. Of course, an enclosed stadium does have the advantage of a big F you to the Fiends.

[Mellsblue]

I know it’s not relevant for this thread but it’s not really worth of it’s own........anyway, good news oop north. A strong Sale, Newcastle and Leeds are vital for English rugby.

http://www.newcastlefalcons.co.uk/news/ ... gston-park

[Which Tyler]

Draft development brief has been sorted and published
http://stadiumforbath.com/draft-development-brief/
Open for public consultation for the next 3 weeks.

Hoping for planning application to go in late this year; so if I'm reading it right - this is basically the last information gathering (and providing) for what the stadium and surrounds should contain. Next step would be to actually sit down with their CAD programs and start sketching; probably expect some first draft concept art sometime around the start of the season to test the water ahead of planning applications.

[Digby]

Which will arrive first, Brexit or the new Bath stadium?

[Puja]

Which will arrive first, Brexit or the new Bath stadium?

Mu.

Puja

[Digby]

Well that's cleared that up

[Puja]

Draft development brief has been sorted and published
http://stadiumforbath.com/draft-development-brief/
Open for public consultation for the next 3 weeks.

Hoping for planning application to go in late this year; so if I'm reading it right - this is basically the last information gathering (and providing) for what the stadium and surrounds should contain. Next step would be to actually sit down with their CAD programs and start sketching; probably expect some first draft concept art sometime around the start of the season to test the water ahead of planning applications.

Okay, I've read it and can confirm to you all that that is an excruciatingly dull document that is exceptionally full of itself. However, it does appear to be taking outstanding care to leave no i undotted and no t uncrossed, presumably with the intent of making the planning application utterly bulletproof. We shall see.

The most interesting snippet to be gleaned from it was the attached, which strongly suggests Bath will be having an artificial pitch of some kind with this new stadium. A good plan considering the water table, although I think I'd prefer a hybrid to a fully-artificial one.

Capture.PNG

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Key points from the concept which Stadium for Bath, their architects and consultants are currently working on are:

* make the riverside a "space to enjoy", encouraging "dwell time" there
* a connecting bridge from Parade Gardens offering access on match day
* use of terraced steps as a flood defence
* Stadium for Bath want to produce social, economic and community benefits for the city from the project -to include other activities in addition to sport
* As a community asset they also intend it should have an outreach aspect - educational and employment opportunities are being considered
* they wish to make it part of a "Smart city" strategy using latest technology
* they are also investigating the likely tourism benefits and studying other cities with central sports stadia (there is only one World Heritage site in Europe currently with a sports stadium in it's centre -Vienna) to learn lessons

Emerging designs will be produced over the next two months.

[Which Tyler]

First concepts - with what looks like quite a lot of NIMBY-bait, and stuff they plan to ditch as concessions:


http://stadiumforbath.com/wp-content/up ... _FINAL.pdf

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/ot ... by-1822649

[Which Tyler]

Loving the riverside, and the link to Parade Gardens; underground parking beneath the Rec? that seems like a sacrifice ploy; but the council may go for it if it keep traffic out of the Town centre.
Conference facilities and shops would still be there for revenue outside of match day.
Also liking the fact that they're almost sinking it; with a grass bank part-way up the back of the East stand.

This really will upset those NIMBYs who don't want any expansion though!

[Puja]

Finally had a chance to look at the plans; it looks lovely, but it does feel a tad like they're taking the piss with having had the handcuffs removed by the charity ruling. Shifting the stadium back from the riverside and using the space there does make a lot of sense, but I suspect it'll be a harder sell because it'll be pushing the stadium further into the Rec proper. Underground car park doubling as flooding space sounds interesting, although I don't get how that wouldn't just be damp 100% of the time. Getting rid of the radial gate and having a new bridge makes 100% sense - the route into the stadium on a match day is crowded and those stairs are awful, so a third way in makes sense.

Puja

[Puja]

You know, the longer I look at this, the less I like it. The last Charity Tribunal decision came down so heavily against the NIMBYs (with the ruling that the Rec Trust had the rights of full ownership and the ability to sell, lease, or otherwise dispose of as much of the Rec as they liked as long as they could justify that doing so would improve outdoor leisure capacity for the city), that I thought it would be a good thing, but the club are now verging on abusing that freedom.

Yes, shifting the stadium away from the riverfront gives room to develop that side properly and reduce the flood risk for the stadium, but it also means that a large chunk more of the open space is swallowed up by the development. Instead of a new stadium requiring a small strip of extra land (and having a demountable side so that it's open in the summer) so that the space is shared, this new design feels like the Rec is going to be dominated by the stadium, with a bit of green to either side.

I hate agreeing even slightly with the 3 Stooges (especially since their bumbling efforts at law are what's ended up giving the rugby this blank cheque), but the Rec shouldn't be just about the stadium. The whole thing needs to be scaled back and brought closer to the original footprint, to my mind.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I'm pretty sure that it will be as well - there seems to be so much built-in redundancy to the scheme; so that they can give ground to the planning officers and still get what they ultimately want.
But it is on the planning officers to get those things struck out.
Not being a Bath resident; I'm not really the best placed to comment on how important all of that is - though I must admit, that my first though on seeing the schematic was "is there really enough space left for a cricket pitch... anywhere"