RugbyRebels

Which is to say how will they structure the attack and resource it and not whether they'll do it well or not

Just give it to Billy.

I'm just watching the Ireland game from the 6N last season, and just reached the part where we win ball back in their half through Brown, set a ruck, make one pass down the blindside and Farrell kicks the ball away for no good reason, and stuff like that makes it hard to even see what the plan might have been.

But what should it be, and indeed what could it be. It doesn't perhaps help they've lost Marler as he's one of our rare decision makers in the pack, though Mako is actually even better in that regard, if only one were a tighthead and we didn't at time see Cole grinding the gears trying to make a decision.

Oakboy wrote:Just give it to Billy.

And hope he scores? Or kick the ball away after that play? And Billy in what system? The 2-4-2 that Bath are trying to adapt, or the 1-3-3-1 that the Lions ran, or...?

Nah I wouldn't mess around with any of that. Our players are too stupid. Stick with loosely kicking away all turnover ball. Unless it's slow, in that case do straight hand down the line. Mix it up a bit with an inside ball to a static forward every so often.

So far it looks like something of a wave attack England run, with groupings of 2 forwards (doesn't feel enough to label them pods) so whilst the nearest forward to any contact looks to support the breakdown we can send 1 man in, which is great if we can get the ball back and tie in 2+ defenders into the bargain but doesn't always work for us, even before our handling errors, kicking the ball away and giving up soft pens.

The ball carrier in the 2 forward unit doesn't always make a great decision, partly skills and decision making, partly if you have 3 you can have support on either shoulder and that's just easier.

Watching the Ireland game is a waste of time, there is basically no attack to review, at least not in the 1st half. The Scotland game would be a bad example too with Scotland deciding to miss tackles after speaking to their bookie or just collectively losing the plot. And the Argie tour was (a) missing a lot of players and (b) some incredibly open play which will not sum up what England are being coached to do

Are there any games which do show what England are trying to achieve and in which they do put some phases together? Is it all wave attacks inspired from watching league, do the 2 man forwards tend to hit up on the guard or just outside? And am I wrong or is England's attack actually rather complicated to coach?

Quote yourself or don't bother.

Mikey Brown wrote:Nah I wouldn't mess around with any of that. Our players are too stupid. Stick with loosely kicking away all turnover ball. Unless it's slow, in that case do straight hand down the line. Mix it up a bit with an inside ball to a static forward every so often.

Mellsblue wrote:Quote yourself or don't bother.

I had a look, nothing worth quoting tbh

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Just give it to Billy.

And hope he scores? Or kick the ball away after that play? And Billy in what system? The 2-4-2 that Bath are trying to adapt, or the 1-3-3-1 that the Lions ran, or...?

I was being sarcastic. Many seem to think he is the returning Messiah that will cure all our back-row problems, supply constant quick ball and turn us into world-beaters.

In reality, if used properly, he could be an outstanding asset in tight multi-phase stuff, wearing the opposition down and creating defensive imbalance to be exploited later in the game. The snag with the theory is that we don't have a skilful enough SH to exploit it.

I agree that we kick far too much possession away, by the way.

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Quote yourself or don't bother.

I had a look, nothing worth quoting tbh

If we set the bar that (relatively) high this board would die a death, and then who would Puja bully...sorry, boss around.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Quote yourself or don't bother.

I had a look, nothing worth quoting tbh

If we set the bar that (relatively) high this board would die a death, and then who would Puja bully...sorry, boss around.

I've got a whole other forum to be suzerian of; I don't need you guys!



Puja

Digby wrote:Which is to say how will they structure the attack and resource it and not whether they'll do it well or not

Injuries permitting, I think we have a pretty clear idea of the lineup. I think Eddie wants to see Te’o at 13 ahead of JJ but unless he recovers sufficiently, I’m not sure he’ll feature in the 6N.

If I’m honest, our attack worries me. We have a top class 13 and some very dangerous outside backs that rarely see the ball.

The only part of our ‘attacking’ play I recall seeing with any regularity/sense of pre-planning in the AIs was the loop move Ford and Faz kept trying to run.

They tried it too often to the point that the Aussies easily read it and nailed one of them on or behind the gain line on at least two, possibly three occasions.

I don’t recall the outside backs getting the ball in space apart from the first few minutes against Samoa.

It’s a concern.

Oakboy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Just give it to Billy.

And hope he scores? Or kick the ball away after that play? And Billy in what system? The 2-4-2 that Bath are trying to adapt, or the 1-3-3-1 that the Lions ran, or...?

I was being sarcastic. Many seem to think he is the returning Messiah that will cure all our back-row problems, supply constant quick ball and turn us into world-beaters.

In reality, if used properly, he could be an outstanding asset in tight multi-phase stuff, wearing the opposition down and creating defensive imbalance to be exploited later in the game. The snag with the theory is that we don't have a skilful enough SH to exploit it.

I agree that we kick far too much possession away, by the way.

How multi is multiphase? Exeter take it to an extreme, but they have more carriers, and they have a different setup to support than England, they run the pods of 3 that we also see with Aus, and that we saw with the Lions. England seem happier not putting so many men in on attack and as with Sarries at times if they're going nowhere take the lower risk option of kicking the ball away, England are ready to play if there's a dominant carry or linebreak, but they don't try to run phase play much

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:
I had a look, nothing worth quoting tbh

If we set the bar that (relatively) high this board would die a death, and then who would Puja bully...sorry, boss around.

I've got a whole other forum to be suzerian of; I don't need you guys!



Puja

Ha!!

Puja wrote:

Must be hard to moderate a board where you don't read what the only poster writes.

On the one hand,you're safe, as no-one else reads what he writes either, but on the other hand... erm... google-bots presumably read them? Or does Google have him on ignore as well?

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:

Must be hard to moderate a board where you don't read what the only poster writes.

On the one hand,you're safe, as no-one else reads what he writes either, but on the other hand... erm... google-bots presumably read them? Or does Google have him on ignore as well?

I can click to see what he's read if I really want to or if there's a problem, but it's just so much easier ignoring him entirely and talking to the occasional person who is interested in my MLR updates.

I think he's feeling a little threatened at the fact that other people were posting on the thread about putative MLR signings - every time someone posted, he posted on a different thread, so it would bump down the one that outsiders were on. That's what that screenshot is - him frantically quoting himself with irrelevances to make sure that a thread with actual people talking rugby isn't top of the forum!

Puja

Yeah, I'd noticed that.

I also noticed during the AIs (or possibly the Summer Tours) that he also prefers talking to himself, live about Match A on his Global Results thread; rather than interacting with the rest of us on the match thread

And long may it continue.

I don't know....Catalonia and Basque country or Leicester is a toss up for the neutral observer.

How has my reasonable question about what attacking structure England might/should use turned into this? You're all bastards!

Watching the Wasps Vs Sarries game trying to pick up on what they're doing, sodding TV coverage does't do any favours in this area, and I find I'm increasingly impressed with Gaskell. Not so much I'd want England to pick him, but when he's at the front of a pod of forwards his handling skills and decision making heading towards contact are nice, and England could use more of this, as is we've got Mako, Billy or Hughes, and, err...

Which Tyler wrote:Yeah, I'd noticed that.

I also noticed during the AIs (or possibly the Summer Tours) that he also prefers talking to himself, live about Match A on his Global Results thread; rather than interacting with the rest of us on the match thread

Digby wrote:How has my reasonable question about what attacking structure England might/should use turned into this? You're all bastards!

Watching the Wasps Vs Sarries game trying to pick up on what they're doing, sodding TV coverage does't do any favours in this area, and I find I'm increasingly impressed with Gaskell. Not so much I'd want England to pick him, but when he's at the front of a pod of forwards his handling skills and decision making heading towards contact are nice, and England could use more of this, as is we've got Mako, Billy or Hughes, and, err...

I did try ...

And for another question. Hughes sometimes found himself wider out, if it's Billy back at #8 will that pattern remain? A pattern I suppose that one might describe the 1-2-2-1 (with 2 forwards normally out of commission from a previous breakdown)

I'm now watching the Wales game from last year. We're almost getting in behind but the handling isn't quite there, when moving it, Clifford and Farrell both almost made nice passes but neither quite managed it and space was then closed down for Daly. There is quite a lot of Ford calling the shots at 10 but then Farrell floating behind the forward mini pods calling for a pullback pass (or not). Maybe Farrell is even the one counting numbers, which also makes me wonder if May is in the side does he count numbers when he's the blindside wing?