RugbyRebels

As above.

Interesting.

I wonder if there is still a transition plan (Baxter presumably?) that has somebody come in to serve under Eddie for a couple of years first, or we’ll simply hold on to him as long as possible.

The RFU Board has also agreed a succession process for appointing Jones’ successor as head coach.

This is likely to involve appointing a new head coach by the end of the 2019/2020 season, with a view to a smooth coaching transition, working with Jones until the summer of 2021, before leading the team into Rugby World Cup 2023.

I like that.

Raggs wrote:

The RFU Board has also agreed a succession process for appointing Jones’ successor as head coach.

This is likely to involve appointing a new head coach by the end of the 2019/2020 season, with a view to a smooth coaching transition, working with Jones until the summer of 2021, before leading the team into Rugby World Cup 2023.

I like that.

It does sound remarkably like good sense, doesn't it? I don't trust it - not natural.

Puja

Part of his remit in Jones’s original contract was to have a succession plan for a head coach to replace him after Japan. Clearly that hasn’t worked.
Hopefully, it’s to give Baxter a couple of years somewhere other than Exeter. Also hopefully, it isn’t a reaction to Baxter saying he doesn’t want the job and Jones/RFU having to reset their plans.
A two year transition period....sounds awfully familiar.

Did they read my post and quickly write that up? Bastards.

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:

The RFU Board has also agreed a succession process for appointing Jones’ successor as head coach.

This is likely to involve appointing a new head coach by the end of the 2019/2020 season, with a view to a smooth coaching transition, working with Jones until the summer of 2021, before leading the team into Rugby World Cup 2023.

I like that.

It does sound remarkably like good sense, doesn't it? I don't trust it - not natural.

Puja

Not sure I do. I can’t think of any top Coach who would accept that.......other than Lancaster or a ex-player with no coaching experience......and we all know how well those appointments went.

Why wouldn't they? OK, they aren't top body for 2 years, but the RFU will be a lot slower to recruit someone with no international experience I suspect. This gives a coach a clear path to the top job, whilst giving them the experience in an easy to handle and less pressured environment.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Raggs wrote:
I like that.

It does sound remarkably like good sense, doesn't it? I don't trust it - not natural.

Puja

Not sure I do. I can’t think of any top Coach who would accept that.......other than Lancaster or a ex-player with no coaching experience......and we all know how well those appointments went.

I was mostly being flippant. Isn't it exactly the way that NZ handled their switchover from Henry to Hansen?

Puja

Raggs wrote:Why wouldn't they? OK, they aren't top body for 2 years, but the RFU will be a lot slower to recruit someone with no international experience I suspect. This gives a coach a clear path to the top job, whilst giving them the experience in an easy to handle and less pressured environment.

I wouldn’t want a head coach who thought he needed to learn off Jones. If we’re going to do something along those lines I’d send them to France/SA/NZ for two years on the RFU payroll and have them lead a Saxons tour every summer.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:
It does sound remarkably like good sense, doesn't it? I don't trust it - not natural.

Puja

Not sure I do. I can’t think of any top Coach who would accept that.......other than Lancaster or a ex-player with no coaching experience......and we all know how well those appointments went.

I was mostly being flippant. Isn't it exactly the way that NZ handled their switchover from Henry to Hansen?

Puja

Not sure. Was he always guaranteed the top job or was he an assistant who proved himself worthy of promotion.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:
It does sound remarkably like good sense, doesn't it? I don't trust it - not natural.

Puja

Not sure I do. I can’t think of any top Coach who would accept that.......other than Lancaster or a ex-player with no coaching experience......and we all know how well those appointments went.

I was mostly being flippant. Isn't it exactly the way that NZ handled their switchover from Henry to Hansen?

Puja

Yeah and look how that turned out. Lost to Australia. Australia can’t even beat Scotland.

On a more serious note. A head coach who will acknowledge there is always more to learn (especially off a guy like EJ) seems like a very good idea indeed.

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:Why wouldn't they? OK, they aren't top body for 2 years, but the RFU will be a lot slower to recruit someone with no international experience I suspect. This gives a coach a clear path to the top job, whilst giving them the experience in an easy to handle and less pressured environment.

I wouldn’t want a head coach who thought he needed to learn off Jones. If we’re going to do something along those lines I’d send them to France/SA/NZ for two years on the RFU payroll and have them lead a Saxons tour every summer.

I wouldn't want a head coach with no international experience. I don't care if they've coached abroad, if it's a club environment it's not the same, and Saxons is also not the same.

If we're bringing in someone with international experience, I'd agree, I don't see why a coach would be happy with the idea, but if we're looking towards Baxter, then I think he definitely needs to experience the international environment to get to grips with it.

NZ did it with Hansen, and he was already an international coach.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Not sure I do. I can’t think of any top Coach who would accept that.......other than Lancaster or a ex-player with no coaching experience......and we all know how well those appointments went.

I was mostly being flippant. Isn't it exactly the way that NZ handled their switchover from Henry to Hansen?

Puja

Yeah and look how that turned out. Lost to Australia. Australia can’t even beat Scotland.

Finally. Some logic and common sense.

Raggs wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:Why wouldn't they? OK, they aren't top body for 2 years, but the RFU will be a lot slower to recruit someone with no international experience I suspect. This gives a coach a clear path to the top job, whilst giving them the experience in an easy to handle and less pressured environment.

I wouldn’t want a head coach who thought he needed to learn off Jones. If we’re going to do something along those lines I’d send them to France/SA/NZ for two years on the RFU payroll and have them lead a Saxons tour every summer.

I wouldn't want a head coach with no international experience. I don't care if they've coached abroad, if it's a club environment it's not the same, and Saxons is also not the same.

If we're bringing in someone with international experience, I'd agree, I don't see why a coach would be happy with the idea, but if we're looking towards Baxter, then I think he definitely needs to experience the international environment to get to grips with it.

NZ did it with Hansen, and he was already an international coach.

Fair enough. If you want international experience and you’re wedded to an English coach then you’ve got no choice. I’m not wedded to that, but I’d be dogmatic about not picking Baxter unless he has experience somewhere other than Exeter. So I can see your thought process.

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: I wouldn’t want a head coach who thought he needed to learn off Jones. If we’re going to do something along those lines I’d send them to France/SA/NZ for two years on the RFU payroll and have them lead a Saxons tour every summer.

I wouldn't want a head coach with no international experience. I don't care if they've coached abroad, if it's a club environment it's not the same, and Saxons is also not the same.

If we're bringing in someone with international experience, I'd agree, I don't see why a coach would be happy with the idea, but if we're looking towards Baxter, then I think he definitely needs to experience the international environment to get to grips with it.

NZ did it with Hansen, and he was already an international coach.

Fair enough. If you want international experience and you’re wedded to an English coach then you’ve got no choice. I’m not wedded to that, but I’d be dogmatic about not picking Baxter unless he has experience somewhere other than Exeter. So I can see your thought process.

If we widen the scope to a British coach, then Kingsley Jones is currently coaching Canada. Isn’t an Englishman currently also head coach of USA rugby?

Or a left field pick - there are a number of English coaches managing country level sevens teams. Transferable skill set?

I'm not desperate for an England coach, but I believe this is the purpose of the succession planning, to get an English coach in a position where he can run the side.

He'll still not have RWC experience, but hopefully a number of the team will, and will be able to avoid going into a RWC having just completely neutered most of the pack, and not picking the ones that weren't.

I'd be happy with Baxter even if he had no other experience than Exeter. The guy has sufficient intelligence and overall rugby nous to adapt to the international game.

However, he has said in the past that he would want the top job or nothing, I believe. That means this transitional business probably rules him out.

It would not be my choice, but the most likely candidate for the guided takeover process would be Andy Farrell.

Good move.
We know the RFU have always wanted this experiment of an overseas coach to be a one-off, so we know that they want to appoint an Englishman next time, which rules out that "experienced international coach" option, and any newcomer to the job should be delighted to work under Eddie - presumably a DoR - HC relationship.
It's also good news if that puts him in contention (confirm him now) as Lions coach in 2021

As for Eddie's comments on not looking tmextend beyond 2019 - that's always struck me as being under orders.

As for his successor, I'd like England to look at Deano as my first choice, I'd like the likes of Baxter to get experience at more then one club first, preferably outside of England too. If looking for non-English Brit.s, then McCall and Young are the obvious pair, but again, I'd like to see them show that they can do it outside of their comfort zones as well.
I hate to say it, but even Farrell might be a decent option, just... not yet.

Raggs wrote:Why wouldn't they? OK, they aren't top body for 2 years, but the RFU will be a lot slower to recruit someone with no international experience I suspect. This gives a coach a clear path to the top job, whilst giving them the experience in an easy to handle and less pressured environment.

1 year

Mellsblue wrote: I wouldn’t want a head coach who thought he needed to learn off Jones. If we’re going to do something along those lines I’d send them to France/SA/NZ for two years on the RFU payroll and have them lead a Saxons tour every summer.

I wouldn't want a head coach who didn't think he could mean anything off Jones - though I agree with your second sentence, that's still a hell of a financial investment in someone who may not make it and may not get the England job. I'd simply state that any English coach must have coached overseas before being considered for the top job.
It's not like Baxter (for example) couldn't get a job in France/Ireland etc on his own merit.

A bit of a surprise but a very welcome one. Good on the RFU for thinking post RWC.

I wonder whether this will change Eddie’s approach in some ways?

Obviously the RWC next year is his key focus and that isn’t going to change. However, he now has to balance that with a longer-term, post-World Cup view. How much that will influence selection etc. is hard to say.

Which Tyler wrote: It's not like Baxter (for example) couldn't get a job in France/Ireland etc on his own merit.

Allegedly, he turned down Clermont. When Cotter left....I think. I thought winning the Prem with Exeter might be a watershed and he’d then consider moving on but the last interview I saw of him he said he couldn’t really see himself leaving, even for England.