RugbyRebels

Anybody give a shit at this point?

I'm quite excited at some of the players we could get involved, and at some of them simply getting a rest. This is massively premature but I need something to distract from the Italy performance.

Townsend's thoughts;
"With a summer tour to Canada, USA and Argentina on the horizon, Townsend suggested he may look to blood some new players.

He could also take the opportunity to rest some key men who have played a lot of rugby over the past year, including Greig Laidlaw, Tommy Seymour and Stuart Hogg, who all toured New Zealand with the British and Irish Lions last summer.

"The summer tour will be one that we will look at as a way to keep improving, but also to introduce new players to the rugby we aspire to play, players who could have a chance of making the World Cup squad in a year's time," Townsend said.

"We will see what the next two months brings. We are conscious we had two or three guys on the Lions tour, so it would be a long season to go from that to a summer tour at the end of it.

"Some players might need some medical care at the end of the season, or surgery, so they can have a full season afterwards.

"But we are also conscious of the momentum we want to carry on. We want to make sure we have a strong squad to take on Canada, the USA and, particularly, Argentina in the third game."

Without knowing anything about who might need rest/surgery I'd be particularly keen to rest the Lions boys, Jonny and, as somebody suggested on another thread, the two flankers. I guess Russell doesn't really count for the Lions but we need to look at other options

Dunbar/Taylor are hard to gauge. Do they need game-time or do they need to take this chance to get themselves fully fit again? They've missed a lot of time this season. Will Huw Jones also have played a very long season by that time?

Anyway, that's something very vaguely resembling;

Prop
LHP: Bhatti, Marfo/Dell/Sutherland/Allan- whoever is fit and playing. Reid is very uninspiring but is probably a solid option ahead of 3 rookies.
THP: Nel, Berghan, Fagerson

Hooker
McInally, Brown, Ford (unless Turner really shows some reason to invest in him)

Second-row
RG, Cummings, GG, Toolis

Back-row
Bradbury, Crosbie, Ritchie, Fagerson, Ashe, Strauss

Half-back
SH: Horne, Price, SHC?
FH: Hastings, err... when did Jackson last play 10?

Centre
Horne, Scott, Dunbar, Taylor. Grigg if any of them don't make it, but frankly I just don't see it with him, great as his little half-breaks are.

Back-three
Visser, McGuigan, Maitland, Kinghorn and I'd be tempted to have another look at Harris as a 13/wing.

Fuck. Bennet! I totally forgot he existed. And Richie Vernon is fit again? Is he a backrower again now?

Against Canada we should be able to field a very callow side and still win. A few experienced heads needed for Argentina.

Front row
McInally should be rested. Berghan deserves the chance to start.

Second row
Cummings should get the chance to tour. Gray needs to be rested. Gilchrist might get the chance to captain.

Back row
I'd like to see Crosbie and Faegerson involved but suspect it will be Hardie instead. Hopefully not
Hamilton who I just don't rate, good performance against NZ aside.

Half backs
Hastings will probably tour and I'd like to see turbo Horne go as well. SHC ahead of Fowles I hope.

Centres
Bennett to get brought back in and build a partnership with Scott. Dunbar needs to be allowed a summer off.

Back three
Leave Horne, Seymour and Maitland home. Jones or Hoyland? Jackson to provide an experienced head and maybe there are grounds for a bolter here.

It's a tricky one. I think it is very important that we win the first two and Argentina away is another we should be hoping/expecting to win and is a good chance to get a decent away scalp. Is playing Hastings in that game just asking for trouble?

That has to be balanced against resting some players. Personally I'd be inclined to rest Dunbar but take Taylor if fit. Rest Jones but take Bennett and Grigg. Probably rest Russell to give him a chance in France and rely on Hastings and Horne. Rest the other Lions although I'd be tempted to take Laidlaw and not play him.

In the forwards I would consider Nel depending on his fitness the rest of the season and definitely rest Jonny. The backrow I am less decided on. I think Fagerson is lined up to be with the u20s.

The players I'd most like to get some gametime are G Horne, Scott, Bennet and Cummings.

Oh and Kinghorn

Fagerson will go with the 20s. That's been the approach when Fagerson Snr and Kinghorn easily could have toured.

Yeah probably getting ahead of myself with Fagerson and it’s a good point in Hastings, but I’d give him a start and as you say Horne/Jackson can play there if he really doesn’t look up to it.

I’d also totally forgotten about Hamilton (and Wilson apparently) but don’t really rate him either. Seems a good grafter but yet another underpowered non-specialist.

Strauss’s stock has risen again through Denton (who I did mean to include) not setting the world alight. I just wish one of them would fucking look the part. Just how many South African 8s do we need to go through before we get a consistently good one?

Lee Jones is another obvious omission on the wing. Visser and McGuigan just don’t cut it for me but we lose an awful lot pace removing Jones/Seymour/Hogg.

There's always de Preez for the backrow too though I've never been all that convinced. Toonie has always kept Ashe around the Glasgow squad too.

Agree that it's worth taking Harris for an outside back slot.

Too late to persuade vellacot?

That’s kind of what I meant. We just cycle between Strauss, Denton, CDP with the most recent holder of the shirt generally being considered the worst. Then give it back to Wilson for a bit and complain about not having a number 8.

I’d love to see Ashe fulfill his promise. But, well, you know.

And yeah I don’t really think Harris had a lot to do with the Wales debacle, and there aren’t too many runners available who are both quite big and quite fast.

Got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water and end up losing one or both of the games.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water and end up losing one or both of the games.

Agreed. Telling the players not to lose should be at the top of the list.

If Hardie heads back to NZ he won't be included and I'd assume that's the last we've seen of him in a Scotland jersey. Which would be a shame. Of course if he stays in the NH then you'd expect him to be named.

Jamie Ritchie? He was named in the last AI squad. And you'd think they'd want another look at Hamilton.

There's always Gary Graham......








....yes, my uber ride is expected any second

Stones of granite wrote:There's always Gary Graham......








....yes, my uber ride is expected any second

Poor Gary. Still can't get a mention despite England having a 'mare of a tournament.

Stones of granite wrote:There's always Gary Graham......








....yes, my uber ride is expected any second

Probably still doesn't realise he was just a pawn in Eddie's big wind up.

Top prank.

Can anybody offer a more enlightened view on n the prop situation?

Obviously we have no idea about who will be fit or playing well, but is there any great difference in quality or style between some of the lesser known (to me) options like Dell, Marfo, Sutherland, Allan and McCallam, Rae on the other side?

Dell I’ve seen a bit more of obviously and seemed great in the loose, not so much the tight, sort of like a young Dickinson. Allan is similar?

Marfo was a shock in the Autumn, having watched him for Quins previously, but who would expect to start for Edinburgh when they’re all fit?

The others I know nothing of.

Mikey Brown wrote:Can anybody offer a more enlightened view on n the prop situation?

Obviously we have no idea about who will be fit or playing well, but is there any great difference in quality or style between some of the lesser known (to me) options like Dell, Marfo, Sutherland, Allan and McCallam, Rae on the other side?

Dell I’ve seen a bit more of obviously and seemed great in the loose, not so much the tight, sort of like a young Dickinson. Allan is similar?

Marfo was a shock in the Autumn, having watched him for Quins previously, but who would expect to start for Edinburgh when they’re all fit?

The others I know nothing of.

I'd take a combination of inexperienced players we want to look at plus seasoned pros that don't need a rest/need some game time/need incorporated back into the set-up.

LH - Marfo, Sutherland and Dickinson. This is Bhatti's first season as a pro IIRC and we know what he brings to the party. Lets not over work him but could easily be swapped with Marfo.

TH - McCalllum, Berghan & Nel. Fagerson is the one needing a rest more than anyone.

Would also do something similar with hooker. Taking Ford, Turner & possibly McInnally along. I'd certainly be leaving Brown at home. I am still not sure about Turner btw - he is very good at the Glasgow style of play but at 25 I expect him to have physically developed more than he has. Are there any obscure SQ options?


Not related to front row but would certainly take Hastings and take a punt on Baggott as the third FH. We need to look at options at 10.

Dell is back playing for Hawick (i think it was them) now so will probably come into Edinburgh reckoning in the next few weeks.

I think the three positions we can most improve (not talking about depth but starting players if fit) are probably loosehead, 8 and 12. We really need to prioritise giving players we think might be the answer in these positions a chance.

Loosehead - I think Reid is surpringly solid but doesnt offer a whole lot. It then comes down to Marfo, Dell, Sutherland or Dickinson. I am not sure we know anymore what Dickinson (or Sutherland to an extent) offer but perhaps Dickinson could be a solid bench option in case we are struggling in the scrum. Dell and Marfo are the more dynamic options but need to know whether they can back up promising international starts.

8 - I dont think we have an option ready. For now I would accept Wilson as first choice and hope we can improve our carrying all round (a carrier at 12 might help)

12 - Dunbar is the No1 choice at the moment I think but ideally we would want his heft and defensive work with a bit more creativity. With a run of fitness he might offer this but I'd be inclined to rest him over the summer and let Scott have a chance for all three games

He’s no bulldozer but if you want a carrier to take some of the heat off the forwards Scott is the best option anyway. I just can’t take Grigg seriously as an international centre.

I really wish there were more capable of defending like Dunbar. It makes it a real dilemma when Jones is virtually undroppable for his attack, but a bit of a mess at times in defence.

I’d be very interested to see how 12. Scott 13. Bennett develops.

Can we just stick Dunbar at 8? I mean we’ve already seen he has a good lineout game.

I may be imagining it, but I recall reading somewhere that the Falcons SA U20 Hooker Kyle Cooper is SQ. May be worth a place if so. Haven't seen much but what I have seen is impressive

Croft_No.5 wrote:I may be imagining it, but I recall reading somewhere that the Falcons SA U20 Hooker Kyle Cooper is SQ. May be worth a place if so. Haven't seen much but what I have seen is impressive

U2Os? He's 29.

Chunks Baws wrote:

Croft_No.5 wrote:I may be imagining it, but I recall reading somewhere that the Falcons SA U20 Hooker Kyle Cooper is SQ. May be worth a place if so. Haven't seen much but what I have seen is impressive

U2Os? He's 29.

I'm pretty sure they don't refuse to cap u20 players on the basis they may turn 29 one day...

I'm pretty sure he means he was capped years ago.

The questions at hooker just remind me of how the SRU criminally wasted Kevin Bryce.

Was never going to be a world beater but he was a solid option and it would have been good to see if he progressed any further as a hooker.

Realised this wasn't really relevant to the Scots Abroad thread anymore, so wondering who you'd all be picking as wings/fullbacks for the summer. Short of sticking a jimmy wig on one of the Van Der Merwe's mums is there any option I've missed from below?

Mikey Brown wrote:Maitland finally seems to be showing a bit more, but behind him and Seymour it’s hard to assess.

Maitland and Seymour must be pushing 30 now

I really like Lee Jones but still doubt he can be a star at the top level. McGuigan is another Visser. Hughes and Hoyland seem to have dropped out of the picture completely? Graham is very young and not getting much game time?

Beyond that is it a case of sticking one of the centres (Harris/Taylor/Jones) or Kinghorn out there?