Second Test

[Puja]

Marler
George
Williams
Itoje
Shields
Hughes
Robshaw
BillyV

Youngs
Farrell
Brown
Loz
Slade
May
Daly

Is what I'm scared Eddie will pick.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Please no ...

Shields is not a lock. Robshaw is not a 7 and Hughes isn’t a regular 6 (although I know he has played there).

Ford was targeted and gave up yards in defence but we wouldn’t have scored our tries without his vision/timing of pass.

[Mellsblue]

Can't see him dropping Maro, Ford or Curry. I'd be surprised not to see Shields start and Brown and May swap.

[Stom]

Any word on Launch? If he's fit, then he partners Itoje. Shields can come in for Robshaw.

[Puja]

Any word on Launch? If he's fit, then he partners Itoje. Shields can come in for Robshaw.

While it's a little bit unfair to judge Shields given he was out of position, he had no greater impact on the game than Robshaw. If we wanted change, then Wilson would be the man.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Brown and May swap???

I'd love to have your faith that Ford/Curry won't be dropped, but we'll see.

EJ in a tough position of his own making, yet again, at loosehead. Genge with no game-time, Marler out of sorts but the best scrummager and Vunipola looking like a big, heavy guy who has been working his arse off without a serious break for (what feels like) an insane amount of time.

What confuses me still about Shields is if EJ was 100% confident (enough to sub Isiekwe) that Shields can provide the grunt and work-rate of a lock with the mobility of a backrower (I'd question whether he is more mobile than NI anyway) why he wasn't a cert to start in the first place. I'd love to see how their stats compared in the end.

[Mellsblue]

Brown and May swap???

I obviously meant Theresa May. I honestly believe she’d be a better winger and he’d be a better prime minster.


I’m only half joking.






I of course meant swap Brown and Daly.

[Mikey Brown]

I prefer the first one actually. I’m ready for a new challenge.

I’d also like to see Theresa have a go at tackling Vermeulen.

I think the best I feel Jones may go with would be

1. Marler
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launch/Isiekwe
6. Robshaw/Shields (I guess we may as well have a look and Wilson won’t get a shot)
7. Curry
8. Billy

9. N/A
10. Farrell (C)
11. Daly
12. Lozowski
13. Slade
14. May
15. Brown (PM)

Genge, LCD, Sink, Isiekwe/Hill, Hughes, N/A, Ford, Woodward

As I typed that it became less and less of either what I would pick or what I think Jones would pick. I’m tempted to just accept grinding it out for 60 and at least having a decent bench to work with. Ford is our best playmaker by a mile but we really struggle to make any use of that. Let Farrell do his thing and see if having a good runner/distributor outside helps him?

[Renniks]

I prefer the first one actually. I’m ready for a new challenge.

I’d also like to see Theresa have a go at tackling Vermeulen.

I think the best I feel Jones may go with would be

1. Marler
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Launch/Isiekwe
6. Robshaw/Shields (I guess we may as well have a look and Wilson won’t get a shot)
7. Curry
8. Billy

9. N/A
10. Farrell (C)
11. Daly
12. Lozowski
13. Slade
14. May
15. Brown (PM)

Genge, LCD, Sink, Isiekwe/Hill, Hughes, N/A, Ford, Woodward

As I typed that it became less and less of either what I would pick or what I think Jones would pick. I’m tempted to just accept grinding it out for 60 and at least having a decent bench to work with. Ford is our best playmaker by a mile but we really struggle to make any use of that. Let Farrell do his thing and see if having a good runner/distributor outside helps him?

I'd largely be okay with this… I'd love if we had a different option at 12 that meant Ford could stay, but I don't really want to see Ford & Farrell start every game

I also wish Wilson would get that look in…

My concern is that we need smart play, dependable breakdown work in attack, and good gainline tackling… I feel if we can achieve those three, we'll challenge most teams again - but right now, we're playing dumb, shit at the breakdown still, and conceding at the gainline far too easily

[Scrumhead]

Well Wilson is someone who is used to captaining his side so if we’re looking for leaders, that may help, but then Shields captains the Hurricanes and has played Super Rugby so he must be better by default ...

I really don’t understand why Wilson hasn’t been given more of a chance given that he’s always looked good when he’s played.

[jngf]

I think Robshaw and Billy simply don’t appear to be physically fit for test rugby at the mo and would be tempted to rest them both for the rest of the tour

4.Launchberry
5.Itoje (but he needs to really work on his carrying and physical presence - Snyman pushed him aside like a rag doll at one point)

6.Wilson (seems to balance nicely with Curry perhaps because he’s a bit more of a carrier and a bit less close quarters focussed than Robshaw? )

7.Curry
8.Hughes

19.Isekwe
20.Simmonds

[francoisfou]

If Cipriani goes home without playing any part at all in this series, wtf was the point in picking him for the tour - bar injury to Ford & Farrell?

[Mellsblue]

The same reason Genge, Hill, Wilson, Robson, Lozowski, Earle and Woodward might go home without a game: Jones thinks they aren’t as good as those he picks.

[Galfon]

I think Robshaw and Billy simply don’t appear to be physically fit for test rugby at the mo and would be tempted to rest them both for the rest of the tour

4.Launchberry
5.Itoje (but he needs to really work on his carrying and physical presence - Snyman pushed him aside like a rag doll at one point)

6.Wilson (seems to balance nicely with Curry perhaps because he’s a bit more of a carrier and a bit less close quarters focussed than Robshaw? )

7.Curry
8.Hughes

19.Isekwe
20.Simmonds

I'd give this a go with Mako,LCD & Williams as starts.
Youngs is Hobson's at 9 & Ford does enough good things to stay (or try Cips with GF on as rep.)
Skip, Slade, Brown, Daly & May just don't have the physicality for a side like SA...at least if they are constantly handed posession or the pack are 2nd best. so Solomona would be worth a go.

[francoisfou]

Ffs Eddie, now's the opportunity to ring a few changes. So...

Cipriani and Robson at half back, Daly on the wing for Brown, Woodward at full-back, Lozowski for Slade, Wilson for Robshaw, Launchbury for Isiekwe, and LCD, Marler and Williams to start.
And find room for Simmons and Genge on the bench.

Will Eddie be bold enough? Pigs might fly, but these guys deserve their chance.

[Stom]

Look, if we're being perfectly honest, we're not too far away from good. Where we lack comes down to the same few questions. And I feel like the answers are less to do with personnel and more to do with coaching and leadership. So making drastic changes doesn't seem like the way forward to me.

There are a few places where we have a tangible upgrade, mind. Launch, if fit, is an upgrade at lock. Shields or Wilson over Robshaw, Daly back to the wing. Williams could come in for Sinckler. And that's about it.

I'd love to see Genge on the bench. His fire coming on late game is something that can have a big impact. Simmonds, too. This isn't a giant, powerful SA team anymore. They're leaner and swifter. Simmonds should be able to make inroads late game.

[pandion]

Mako
George
Williams
Launch
Itoje
Shield
Curry
Billy
Youngs
Faz
Solomona
Loz
Slade
May
Daly

Genge
LCD
Sink
Iseikwe
Hughes
Simmonds
Spencer
Woodward/Cips if you're brave

I think you have to tell the pack to empty the tank then bring on the bench at 50ish minutes. I'd probably leave Itoje and Shields on especially as shields is a lineout option.

[Banquo]

That's twice I've seen May criticised- he had as good a game as anyone imo

[Banquo]

Look, if we're being perfectly honest, we're not too far away from good. Where we lack comes down to the same few questions. And I feel like the answers are less to do with personnel and more to do with coaching and leadership. So making drastic changes doesn't seem like the way forward to me.

There are a few places where we have a tangible upgrade, mind. Launch, if fit, is an upgrade at lock. Shields or Wilson over Robshaw, Daly back to the wing. Williams could come in for Sinckler. And that's about it.

I'd love to see Genge on the bench. His fire coming on late game is something that can have a big impact. Simmonds, too. This isn't a giant, powerful SA team anymore. They're leaner and swifter. Simmonds should be able to make inroads late game.

They are a sizeable team- the backs are big lads as well.

I think we are a long way from from good.

[Mellsblue]

That's twice I've seen May criticised- he had as good a game as anyone imo

Yep. It’s a strange one.

[pandion]

Look, if we're being perfectly honest, we're not too far away from good. Where we lack comes down to the same few questions. And I feel like the answers are less to do with personnel and more to do with coaching and leadership. So making drastic changes doesn't seem like the way forward to me.

There are a few places where we have a tangible upgrade, mind. Launch, if fit, is an upgrade at lock. Shields or Wilson over Robshaw, Daly back to the wing. Williams could come in for Sinckler. And that's about it.

I'd love to see Genge on the bench. His fire coming on late game is something that can have a big impact. Simmonds, too. This isn't a giant, powerful SA team anymore. They're leaner and swifter. Simmonds should be able to make inroads late game.

They are a sizeable team- the backs are big lads as well.

I think we are a long way from from good.

They'll also be confident and know they can bully the side they just played after looking lost for 20 mins.

[Banquo]

Look, if we're being perfectly honest, we're not too far away from good. Where we lack comes down to the same few questions. And I feel like the answers are less to do with personnel and more to do with coaching and leadership. So making drastic changes doesn't seem like the way forward to me.

There are a few places where we have a tangible upgrade, mind. Launch, if fit, is an upgrade at lock. Shields or Wilson over Robshaw, Daly back to the wing. Williams could come in for Sinckler. And that's about it.

I'd love to see Genge on the bench. His fire coming on late game is something that can have a big impact. Simmonds, too. This isn't a giant, powerful SA team anymore. They're leaner and swifter. Simmonds should be able to make inroads late game.

They are a sizeable team- the backs are big lads as well.

I think we are a long way from from good.

They'll also be confident and know they can bully the side they just played after looking lost for 20 mins.

I reckon we can bounce back, as their defence was shoddy, but we have to select better. try and retain discipline, and learn a new defensive system. FWIW I dont think Faz would be able to unpick them as well as Ford; if you play him, the pack will have to really step up and dominate for long periods.

[pandion]

They are a sizeable team- the backs are big lads as well.

I think we are a long way from from good.

They'll also be confident and know they can bully the side they just played after looking lost for 20 mins.

I reckon we can bounce back, as their defence was shoddy, but we have to select better. try and retain discipline, and learn a new defensive system. FWIW I dont think Faz would be able to unpick them as well as Ford; if you play him, the pack will have to really step up and dominate for long periods.

That's what I'd aim for and go with a 6/2 bench to keep it up. I think it's easier with who's available to sure things up in the midfield and play with more power than guile. I can't see us faring much better without beating them upfront. Having said that Faz and Loz were excellent in the final (yes I know Loz was at 13) and Slade is in good form so if we are on the front foot we'll score points.

[Banquo]

They'll also be confident and know they can bully the side they just played after looking lost for 20 mins.

I reckon we can bounce back, as their defence was shoddy, but we have to select better. try and retain discipline, and learn a new defensive system. FWIW I dont think Faz would be able to unpick them as well as Ford; if you play him, the pack will have to really step up and dominate for long periods.

That's what I'd aim for and go with a 6/2 bench to keep it up. I think it's easier with who's available to sure things up in the midfield and play with more power than guile. I can't see us faring much better without beating them upfront. Having said that Faz and Loz were excellent in the final (yes I know Loz was at 13) and Slade is in good form so if we are on the front foot we'll score points.

I'd much prefer Loz at 12, given what Wasps did to him at 13; I'm not convinced by Slades defence at 13, but he's adapting to the blitz zealotry so have some sympathy.

I hate a 6/2 split, but can see the logic. However if we fail with your plan to dominate, it could get messy.

[p/d]

Ditch Mako and George. Pick a lock with some dog and tell the backs not to kick away the ball. Move Brown to fb (or start Woodward) and Daly to wing.

A descent 9 might help as well.