RugbyRebels

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/spor ... -wkb66rlpd

Interesting call, he had a good record when he was in charge of the Academy and Saxons.

Confirmed

So is he in line to replace Fletcher and Walton? Paywall means I can't see the article.

Relatively pleased if so - would rather not have sacked them, but Mallinder's a good replacement.

Puja

Puja wrote:So is he in line to replace Fletcher and Walton? Paywall means I can't see the article.

Relatively pleased if so - would rather not have sacked them, but Mallinder's a good replacement.

Puja

It’s on the RFU site now.
Yes he’s hasn’t replaced them.

On the RFU site - http://www.englandrugby.com/news/jim-ma ... 91855196=1

Pity to lose Fletcher and Walton but Jim might turn out to be a very wise appointment.

Happy with Mallinder, but only caveat would be that I’m not convinced he’ll stick around for the long term. Would expect he’s still got some head coaching ambitions and if he gets a good offer he could well be off again.

Timbo wrote:Happy with Mallinder, but only caveat would be that I’m not convinced he’ll stick around for the long term. Would expect he’s still got some head coaching ambitions and if he gets a good offer he could well be off again.

Partly this, and partly how up to date is he on hands on coaching, esp with age group lads. His predecessors were universally, bar Ryan, admired for being the best there were in age group coaching.

If he gets them playing and coaches them towards a limited game ala Saints it is a backwards step.

I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

Mellsblue wrote:I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

I think that's exactly what Ryan is aiming for, and I'll bet his objectives/bonus are geared that way.

Mellsblue wrote:I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

Possibly, but that would go against a lot of what he said as a pundit.

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

Possibly, but that would go against a lot of what he said as a pundit.

.....depends who is paying you for doing what, really!

Mind, his early days at Glaws were characterised by playing fast and loose with highly skilled players....but eventually he lost faith with that as Glaws lost faith with him

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

Possibly, but that would go against a lot of what he said as a pundit.

Pundit in making-declarations-that-he'd-never-follow-through-on-were-he-actually-in-the-job shocker!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:I do worry we are moving towards a results orientated setup with a desire to produce match hardened, solid players rather than age grade still being about upskilling and producing rounded players.

Possibly, but that would go against a lot of what he said as a pundit.

Pundit in making-declarations-that-he'd-never-follow-through-on-were-he-actually-in-the-job shocker!

Puja

If I wanted to produce players with a rounded skill set the head coach who produced the Saints gameplan of the last x years would not be my first port of call.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:
Possibly, but that would go against a lot of what he said as a pundit.

Pundit in making-declarations-that-he'd-never-follow-through-on-were-he-actually-in-the-job shocker!

Puja

If I wanted to produce players with a rounded skill set the head coach who produced the Saints gameplan of the last x years would not be my first port of call.

If we're taking that approach, he isn't who you'd go to for results either!

Mallinder came up through youth development and was quite well rated at it, so hopefully he's better at that than he was at management.

Puja

His management at Saints changed once he had pressure on him to succeed.

When he took over saints in the champ with no expectations and had time to develop players he had a really good record.

Tigersman wrote:His management at Saints changed once he had pressure on him to succeed.

When he took over saints in the champ with no expectations and had time to develop players he had a really good record.

Partly because the player group was excellent, and he developed a plan that suited them. Unfortunately, he pretty much then stuck with the plan with an increasingly inferior set of players. He certainly didn't give the impression that players developed under him in the last 5 years +

Jim certainly stalled at Saints but running a Prem side isnt exactly what he's being employed by the RFU to do.

Maybe his experience in a top job will help him in the new role.

fivepointer wrote:Jim certainly stalled at Saints but running a Prem side isnt exactly what he's being employed by the RFU to do.

Maybe his experience in a top job will help him in the new role.

I don't see the relation in respect of top mgt experience- this is a hands on coaching job as I understand it; its what he did a long while ago, and I'd hope he's going to have a bit of a re-train to bring him up to speed. At Saints he wasn't developing players under his overall care, so there is relevance in bringing up his latter years.

Banquo wrote:

Tigersman wrote:His management at Saints changed once he had pressure on him to succeed.

When he took over saints in the champ with no expectations and had time to develop players he had a really good record.

Partly because the player group was excellent, and he developed a plan that suited them. Unfortunately, he pretty much then stuck with the plan with an increasingly inferior set of players. He certainly didn't give the impression that players developed under him in the last 5 years +

It was a player group that just got relegated couldn't have been that excellent.
He built that team.

He gave the likes of
Ashton
Lawes
Hartley
etc
their first chances.

He and the team grew stale in the last 3 years it happens.


As long as West doesn't follow i'm happy.

Tigersman wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Tigersman wrote:His management at Saints changed once he had pressure on him to succeed.

When he took over saints in the champ with no expectations and had time to develop players he had a really good record.

Partly because the player group was excellent, and he developed a plan that suited them. Unfortunately, he pretty much then stuck with the plan with an increasingly inferior set of players. He certainly didn't give the impression that players developed under him in the last 5 years +

It was a player group that just got relegated couldn't have been that excellent.
He built that team.

He gave the likes of
Ashton
Lawes
Hartley
etc
their first chances.

He and the team grew stale in the last 3 years it happens.


As long as West doesn't follow i'm happy.

They had All Blacks Carlos Spencer, Bruce Reihana and Mark Robinson, amongst others. They had a great squad in championship terms, and then after promotion imported the likes of Foden, Pisi's, and the massive props that made a huge difference; and he built a nearly great team out of some very good players, with a sprinkle of home grown- so kudos. But you seem to imply by 'it happens' that he had no control over his own destiny? I was a fan of Mallinder, but he simply didn't change when it was obvious he should have done...and was given too much time if anything. I think its quite an odd appointment, but hope it worls out.

Banquo wrote:

Tigersman wrote:

Banquo wrote: Partly because the player group was excellent, and he developed a plan that suited them. Unfortunately, he pretty much then stuck with the plan with an increasingly inferior set of players. He certainly didn't give the impression that players developed under him in the last 5 years +

It was a player group that just got relegated couldn't have been that excellent.
He built that team.

He gave the likes of
Ashton
Lawes
Hartley
etc
their first chances.

He and the team grew stale in the last 3 years it happens.


As long as West doesn't follow i'm happy.

They had All Blacks Carlos Spencer, Bruce Reihana and Mark Robinson, amongst others. They had a great squad in championship terms, and then after promotion imported the likes of Foden, Pisi's, and the massive props that made a huge difference; and he built a nearly great team out of some very good players, with a sprinkle of home grown- so kudos. But you seem to imply by 'it happens' that he had no control over his own destiny? I was a fan of Mallinder, but he simply didn't change when it was obvious he should have done...and was given too much time if anything. I think its quite an odd appointment, but hope it worls out.

No i don't, I imply that it happens regularly enough and not just at Rugby clubs but elsewhere, Noves, Cockerill etc etc. Once a coach is at a club for a while things can just get stale.

He took saints from the champ to a European cup final in 3 seasons.
Also worth pointing out that a few of the players he signed like Foden where players he helped develop with that England academy post.

Tigersman wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Tigersman wrote:
It was a player group that just got relegated couldn't have been that excellent.
He built that team.

He gave the likes of
Ashton
Lawes
Hartley
etc
their first chances.

He and the team grew stale in the last 3 years it happens.


As long as West doesn't follow i'm happy.

They had All Blacks Carlos Spencer, Bruce Reihana and Mark Robinson, amongst others. They had a great squad in championship terms, and then after promotion imported the likes of Foden, Pisi's, and the massive props that made a huge difference; and he built a nearly great team out of some very good players, with a sprinkle of home grown- so kudos. But you seem to imply by 'it happens' that he had no control over his own destiny? I was a fan of Mallinder, but he simply didn't change when it was obvious he should have done...and was given too much time if anything. I think its quite an odd appointment, but hope it worls out.

No i don't, I imply that it happens regularly enough and not just at Rugby clubs but elsewhere, Noves, Cockerill etc etc. Once a coach is at a club for a while things can just get stale.

He took saints from the champ to a European cup final in 3 seasons.
Also worth pointing out that a few of the players he signed like Foden where players he helped develop with that England academy post.

As I said, he turned them into a nearly great side with some terrific players; but in parallel to that, he didn't develop or import anything to replace the great players that were going to be lost, nor did he adapt style. I do agree on sell by date, and too few coaches recognise it.

I will note that Fletcher was sacked as DoR of a deeply uninspiring Newcastle side before joining the England age groups, so ability as a DoR doesn't always bear resemblence to how good one is as head of youth development.

Puja

Puja wrote:I will note that Fletcher was sacked as DoR of a deeply uninspiring Newcastle side before joining the England age groups, so ability as a DoR doesn't always bear resemblence to how good one is as head of youth development.

Puja

well quite, its obviously a different role which needs different skills