RugbyRebels

Tom Hudson; 14. Charlie Sharples, 13. Billy Twelvetrees, 12. Mark Atkinson, 11. Matt Banahan; 10. Danny Cipriani, 9. Ben Vellacott; 1. Josh Hohneck, 2. James Hanson, 3. Fraser Balmain; 4. Ed Slater (capt), 5. Gerbrandt Grobler; 6. Jake Polledri, 7. Lewis Ludlow, 8. Ben Morgan


Replacements:

Franco Marais, 17. Alex Seville, 18. Ciaran Knight, 19. Freddie Clarke, 20. Gareth Evans, 21. Callum Braley, 22. Owen Williams, 23. Jason Woodward

Hmmmm

Our front row didn't go well last weekend, and Wasps replacement front row are stronger than ours. Disagree with 36 at 13. Wasps back row is a big unit. Optimistic and fearful in equal measure.....

Glos havent been great the last 2 weeks while Wasps were a bit fortunate to win at Newcastle and are still without Launchbury.
Difficult one to call, but i'm going for a home win.

Wasps look stronger up front. I really like that back row. I can't see Gloucester getting enough tidy ball.

Hoping the scrum will see us through in this one.

Gloucester’s back row has a better balance to it IMO.

As Gloskarlos mentioned, the comparative weakness of their reserve props is the problem. Knight and Seville have potential but are both inexperienced and a bit lightweight. Having VRR back fit and Dreyer in the mix means that Hohneck and Balmain likely drop down to second choice.

BP win for Glos. That's a good win that gets their season back on track. Wasps really struggling for consistency.

That’ll do, glos pack actually had the upper hand for most of that despite being significantly lighter.

Cipriani taking on the kicking duties, I wonder how much EJ has been a part of that

twitchy wrote:

If he wants to know why he isn't getting picked for England, it's for pulling stunts like that.

Does he really think Eddie wants to see that sort of behaviour from a 10?

16th man wrote:

twitchy wrote:

If he wants to know why he isn't getting picked for England, it's for pulling stunts like that.

Does he really think Eddie wants to see that sort of behaviour from a 10?

He is the matt le tissier of english rugby.

twitchy wrote:

It was very nice from Cipriani (although he did nearly screw up the try with a scuffed kick), but I can't help watching that and wondering what the Wasps defence coach has been doing with the players. The short side has Rowlands ambling around, neither in guard or first and, while it's no shame to be gassed by Cipriani, most people at least break into a trot as they try to catch him. Then, as the camera zooms out, it appears Kieran Brookes is resolutely sticking close to Wade and guarding the wing, with absolute confidence in Rowlands to cover 20m of defensive line on his own, but no confidence in letting Wade patrol 10m. I presume that's why he makes no effort to try and fill in the gap on the inside and not just sheer bone idleness.

Puja

Let's put banahan at 10 for england.

Puja wrote:

twitchy wrote:

It was very nice from Cipriani (although he did nearly screw up the try with a scuffed kick), but I can't help watching that and wondering what the Wasps defence coach has been doing with the players. The short side has Rowlands ambling around, neither in guard or first and, while it's no shame to be gassed by Cipriani, most people at least break into a trot as they try to catch him. Then, as the camera zooms out, it appears Kieran Brookes is resolutely sticking close to Wade and guarding the wing, with absolute confidence in Rowlands to cover 20m of defensive line on his own, but no confidence in letting Wade patrol 10m. I presume that's why he makes no effort to try and fill in the gap on the inside and not just sheer bone idleness.

Puja

Also right as the try is scored the last covering wasps defender runs to the skill point rather than just running which gives him less time. It's probably a done deal but you don't need to do attacks work for them

Somebody explain why you would ignore such pace, skill and vision. When did Farrell and Youngs ever do what Cipriani and Vellacott did there. As for the defence, the sheer fact that those two players CAN do that adds another dimension.

Youngs has many examples of running around forwards

Yeah, Youngs’s running ability is very low on my list of concerns about him.

I say again, when did Farrell AND Youngs (i.e together, as a pair, both at the same time etc.) EVER do it. Or, Ford and Youngs. Or, any combination of the two FHs with Care? Maybe they can but I've never seen it. That degree of ambition, over that distance, at that pace . . .?

Ford and Farrell rarely run, Farrell as it's not a strength and Ford has cut back on what he originally showed at Leicester and then with Bath. Ford could do it more, indeed Eddie is on record as wanting him to run more, Youngs does it frequently and it's not his fault if the man outside isn't looking for such breaks. There's also the defending by Wasps is poor, so if you're looking for specifically comparable examples it's a tad harsh

Oakboy wrote:I say again, when did Farrell AND Youngs (i.e together, as a pair, both at the same time etc.) EVER do it. Or, Ford and Youngs. Or, any combination of the two FHs with Care? Maybe they can but I've never seen it. That degree of ambition, over that distance, at that pace . . .?

Basically, the question is when did Ford and Youngs do it, as no international defense will ever be as accommodating as Wasps were there. It was shocking.

And that's not the kind of try I would be basing my international selection on, just like I wouldn't be selecting Marchant on the back of his wonder try alone.

The point for me is that the opposition should be threatened by attacking potential. Currently, England's opposition does not need to bother about 9, 10 and 12 in terms of their own attacking threat - only such threat as they may engender in others. That is a limiting factor which restricts our play.

Oakboy wrote:I say again, when did Farrell AND Youngs (i.e together, as a pair, both at the same time etc.) EVER do it. Or, Ford and Youngs. Or, any combination of the two FHs with Care? Maybe they can but I've never seen it. That degree of ambition, over that distance, at that pace . . .?

2 minutes on youtube found this:





The last one has the breaks at 7.51 and 9.01

I will also note that, for all the Cipriani fervour, England's problem on the South Africa tour was not the 10-12 axis, nor really our attacking play. That was one of the few bits that worked in the first two tests and we looked nowhere near as coherent in the backs when we replaced Ford with Cipriani. That's probably as much because the team's not built around Cipriani and that backline probably got all of three runouts in training, but the occasional moment of highlights reel doesn't make Cips better than Ford.

Puja

Interesting to read “EJ on record as wanting Ford to run more”. I had assumed it was exactly the opposite. Ford is at his best when he can shape a game himself, but we play a massive amount through both 9 (for some odd reason) and 12, with Ford just booting the ball in the air. I can’t imagine Eddie has no say over this?