RugbyRebels

Simple.

Nope.

Manu to stay at Leicester and Daly on the bench.

Nothing to do with Tigers next game.

Let him rampage for the last 20 when we bring the cavalry on.

Yep if starting at 12. Anybody will do if it means we kick the Ford / Farrell axis to touch.

Also ditch Goode and keep Daly on bench.

Its all about fitness really. I dont think he's fit enough to start but 20-25 minutes off the bench should be manageable.

As long as Daly is on the bench then I'd be happy if Manu was there too. It'd mean that Goode wasn't on it. What's not to like?

I'd be much happier if Manu 'rampaged' for the first 20. If we are going to put Roberts on his arse then that is my preferred time to do it.

p/d wrote:I'd be much happier if Manu 'rampaged' for the first 20. If we are going to put Roberts on his arse then that is my preferred time to do it.

That's kind of my feeling. At 50-60 minutes it may be too late for our bench to make the difference no matter how good. If Manu isn't fully fit we can haul him off, if he has a fantastic game in him right now it seems crazy not to see it from the start. If Ford gets at least a few passes that aren't behind his head he could make real use of Tuilagi. It seems harsh on Farrell when he's been in good form and played out of position but I think I see that being our best bet.

I can see Joseph doing more with a less passive 12 too.

p/d wrote:I'd be much happier if Manu 'rampaged' for the first 20. If we are going to put Roberts on his arse then that is my preferred time to do it.

This. Much rather get on the front foot and give the Dr something to think about (which Farrell won't). Let him rampage and empty the tanks, then The chav can come and close it down.

Still want to see Daly smash one from 65m to keep the Welsh honest.

I'd start him. Having two playmakers has worked okay for our continuity, but it's meant that the ball is shuffled aimlessly sideways far too much and Joseph must be sick of receiving the ball without any of the defence having been committed. Even at 80%, Manu keeps defences interested and having him there would make room for both Ford and Joseph.

I don't have any worries about his physical fitness - he's completed three 80 minutes on the trot for Leicester. His match sharpness is still off its best, but he's still a valuable weapon to have and would enable us to get on the front foot from the beginning of the match, which will be key.

Plus I'd imagine that the Welsh defensive plan has been pretty much "Hit BillyV early and hard, every time he gets the ball" and I'd imagine it'd be useful to have a second runner for them to focus on.

Puja

Manu to start at 12 and Ford at 10. Farrell to replace Goode on the bench.

skidger wrote:Manu to start at 12 and Ford at 10. Farrell to replace Goode on the bench.

That's the dream.

I would have him replace Goode in the 23. I would have him on the bench, being conservative and being unsure of whether he has the sharpness to avoid a mistake in the tight early 60/to avoid mixing up the cohesion of the team, but I read the arguments for him starting and really hope they're right and that's what happens and it's great.

I'd be amazed if Farrell is the one to drop down to the bench for Manu

I too would go Ford - Manu - Joseph. My only concern is would Manu's unwillingness to pass mean Joseph and the wings get no ball; this is on top of Brown never passing!

Bloggs wrote:I'd be amazed if Farrell is the one to drop down to the bench for Manu

I too would go Ford - Manu - Joseph. My only concern is would Manu's unwillingness to pass mean Joseph and the wings get no ball; this is on top of Brown never passing!

Brown put in a memorable pass last time out, okay it had Bergamasco laughing he could do better, but still there it was, a pass.

Bloggs wrote:I'd be amazed if Farrell is the one to drop down to the bench for Manu

I too would go Ford - Manu - Joseph. My only concern is would Manu's unwillingness to pass mean Joseph and the wings get no ball; this is on top of Brown never passing!

Eddie has said that Ford's his 10 till the end of the tournament. Granted, that is an Eddie proclamation, but still.

Puja

In a perfect world I would be starting him for sure. I just remember EJ saying he had "20 mins of test rugby in him". That might have changed (I think he said that the previous weekend).

I just think that you can't have some one gassing against the welsh centres. It really all depends on what shape he is in (which I'm not sure).

Is there a concern that if he's not fully match fit it might endanger his rehab? (I know nothing about these issues!)

Or is the concern purely that he might not have enough gas for 60 minutes and that would damage our chances of winning on Saturday?

thedman wrote:Is there a concern that if he's not fully match fit it might endanger his rehab? (I know nothing about these issues!)

Or is the concern purely that he might not have enough gas for 60 minutes and that would damage our chances of winning on Saturday?

I think mainly the latter… with a slight concern that if he's running a crash ball / tackling when he's ran out of gas he might get re-injured (he's seemingly a bit fragile)

I think with Daly being tried at 12 last week, and Farrell not absolutely being terrible there, I'd start Tuilagi with those 2 on the bench…

According to the DT today Tuilagi cannot do a full week's training yet. By definition, that means he is not fully fit. The very worst scenario possible is picking him too early (for his physical well-being and long-term availability). Fit for 20 minutes = unfit. The match against Wales is simply not important enough to take a risk with him, IMO.

The biggest issue is with "match fitness" or as someone has already said "sharpness" there were one or two occasions yesterday he was out of position defensively and in attack. The latter he made up for with his pace and strength (and a very good pick up). Against Wales that would be exploited to the maximum. I think bench is the better option.

And given Oakboys post I am even surer!

If the issue is how long he'd last; then I always prefer to start the player than to bring them off the bench.
If that's the issue, then we're not talking about fitness in terms of injury recovery or ability to take the hits, but cardio.
I'd far rather find that the estimate of how long he can go for was too much when there's a replacement on the bench than if he is that replacement off the bench and has to stay on for the last 10 minutes whilst blowing out of his arse.

Start him, and when he hits the wall, replace him - far better than benching him, and being screwed when he has no more to give.

Of course, if there's any worry that playing international rugby would kick-start his injury again, or that he can't take the hits, then he shouldn't make the bench. Equally of course, if that's the case, then he shouldn't have been playing 80 for Leicester for the last 3 weeks either.

I would like to be sensible about this in terms of fitness but the alternative is Farrell at 12. Manu should start over him and then be given the MBE or something.

Oakboy wrote:According to the DT today Tuilagi cannot do a full week's training yet. By definition, that means he is not fully fit. The very worst scenario possible is picking him too early (for his physical well-being and long-term availability). Fit for 20 minutes = unfit. The match against Wales is simply not important enough to take a risk with him, IMO.

Yet can start consecutive games at club level. Seems a bit odd to me.

Which Tyler wrote:If the issue is how long he'd last; then I always prefer to start the player than to bring them off the bench.
If that's the issue, then we're not talking about fitness in terms of injury recovery or ability to take the hits, but cardio.
I'd far rather find that the estimate of how long he can go for was too much when there's a replacement on the bench than if he is that replacement off the bench and has to stay on for the last 10 minutes whilst blowing out of his arse.

Start him, and when he hits the wall, replace him - far better than benching him, and being screwed when he has no more to give.

Of course, if there's any worry that playing international rugby would kick-start his injury again, or that he can't take the hits, then he shouldn't make the bench. Equally of course, if that's the case, then he shouldn't have been playing 80 for Leicester for the last 3 weeks either.

A counter argument for this is what happens if say JJ goes off injured after 5 mins? Daly on with only Goode left to come on for Manu when he's blowing after 30? Not a good scenario. Personally, I'd far rather bring Manu on with 20 left to play and assume if he's blowing with 5 mins left then at least everyone else will be blowing by then too.