England vs New Zealand

[fivepointer]

England men’s head coach Eddie Jones has called up 35 players today (Sunday) to begin preparations for their next Quilter International Test against New Zealand on Saturday 10 November (KO 3pm live on Sky Sports HD).

Harlequins centre Joe Marchant will join up with the squad for the first time this series.

Tom Curry (Sale Sharks) will be assessed further on an ankle injury he sustained during England’s win over South Africa on Saturday.

England sealed a 12-11 victory over the Springboks at the weekend in their first Test of the Quilter Internationals.

Forwards
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) co-captain, Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Michael Rhodes (Saracens), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Nathan Earle (Harlequins), Owen Farrell (Saracens) co-captain, George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Joe Marchant (Harlequins), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

*Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) not considered due to injury.

[Scrumhead]

Fingers crossed on Curry. Even in the worst case scenario, who is Eddie going to call-up? Gary Graham is probably the most likely. Ben Curry is the most obvious like for like (literally), but he’s not been as good this season as he was last season (when ironically he was better than Tom). Kvesic deserves the call, but I can’t see it happening.

[fivepointer]

England could do worse than Graham or Kvesic but i'm sure they'll go with Underhill if Curry isnt fit. Marchant in there to cover for Manu, who may be a bit further away from fitness than was suggested last week.

[Timbo]

England could do worse than Graham or Kvesic but i'm sure they'll go with Underhill if Curry isnt fit. Marchant in there to cover for Manu, who may be a bit further away from fitness than was suggested last week.

Lozowski suspended also.

[WaspInWales]

So, on the Bristol stool scale, where are you placing England's defence next week?

A firm and solid 1, a loose and wide-open 7 or somewhere in between?

I'm expecting an opening period of stubborn 2, followed quickly by a shit hits the fan 6* or 7**.

* - fluffy pieces with ragged edges, mushy (Farrell).
** - watery, no solid pieces. Entirely liquid (Ashton).

Mess will be made.

[Puja]

Fingers crossed on Curry. Even in the worst case scenario, who is Eddie going to call-up? Gary Graham is probably the most likely. Ben Curry is the most obvious like for like (literally), but he’s not been as good this season as he was last season (when ironically he was better than Tom). Kvesic deserves the call, but I can’t see it happening.

Ben Curry really has been f*cked about with, hasn't he? To be told that your genetically identical twin is the first choice in the back row for England, but Eddie's had you in for one training camp and decided you're not good enough to even make the extended squsd and should instead be with the U20s, where you belong. But we do have room on the tour for Ben Earl, who's barely played at all this season, but is still a better bet than you.

It's no wonder he's lost confidence. If Eddie had been developing both of them equally, instead of playing mind games, then we'd have two good 7s, instead of just one.

Puja

[Lizard]

So England’s 2018 average tries scored per test (2.44) is almost identical to New Zealand’s average tries conceded (2.45). I therefore confidently predict that England will score 2.4 - 2.5 tries this weekend.

In case you are wondering NZ is averaging 6.09 tries scored/test in 2018, and England is conceding 2.00.

[Digby]

Fingers crossed on Curry. Even in the worst case scenario, who is Eddie going to call-up? Gary Graham is probably the most likely. Ben Curry is the most obvious like for like (literally), but he’s not been as good this season as he was last season (when ironically he was better than Tom). Kvesic deserves the call, but I can’t see it happening.

Ben Curry really has been f*cked about with, hasn't he? To be told that your genetically identical twin is the first choice in the back row for England, but Eddie's had you in for one training camp and decided you're not good enough to even make the extended squsd and should instead be with the U20s, where you belong. But we do have room on the tour for Ben Earl, who's barely played at all this season, but is still a better bet than you.

It's no wonder he's lost confidence. If Eddie had been developing both of them equally, instead of playing mind games, then we'd have two good 7s, instead of just one.

Puja

Odder still when if forced to choose I'd have Ben as the better prospect. Eddie though is now properly English and is going with the more physical version, clearly his history of picking a young George Smith who initially was exposed a little on the physical front is making it clear to Eddie not to make that mistake again

[Raggs]

Considering Tom has looked a little underpowered at times at international, is it surprising that a less physical version isn't playing?

[twitchy]

Any news on curry?

[CunningPunter]

So, on the Bristol stool scale, where are you placing England's defence next week?

A firm and solid 1, a loose and wide-open 7 or somewhere in between?

I'm expecting an opening period of stubborn 2, followed quickly by a shit hits the fan 6* or 7**.

* - fluffy pieces with ragged edges, mushy (Farrell).
** - watery, no solid pieces. Entirely liquid (Ashton).

Mess will be made.

I'm thinking the entire pack will be pale, bulky and evil-smelling.

[Digby]

Considering Tom has looked a little underpowered at times at international, is it surprising that a less physical version isn't playing?

No providing the performances of those picked are good enough, but given we're satisfied with dross from a large number of supposed honest toilers who put simply aren't good enough and aren't going to be then it's a different picture

[Mellsblue]

I’m not so bothered about how Jones has treated BCurry. He was considered above TCurry when they first broke in to the squad, was injured and TCurry took his chance to impress. Jones shouldn’t treat them any differently because they are twins. From what I saw last season Tom looks the better player with Ben having the better highlights reel. Let’s just be grateful we have them both and, injury permitting, for at least another 10 years.
The EQ backrow stock that has come into senior rugby in the last 2/3 years looks very, very promising.

[Puja]

I’m not so bothered about how Jones has treated BCurry. He was considered above TCurry when they first broke in to the squad, was injured and TCurry took his chance to impress. Jones shouldn’t treat them any differently because they are twins. From what I saw last season Tom looks the better player with Ben having the better highlights reel. Let’s just be grateful we have them both and, injury permitting, for at least another 10 years.
The EQ backrow stock that has come into senior rugby in the last 2/3 years looks very, very promising.

I agree with the bolded bit, but I really do think he has. Ben was at least on a par with Tom last season for Sale, if not slightly ahead, and he's been continuously ignored, even when there's been back row injuries. Even Armand's had time in the training squads; BCurry's just been ignored entirely.

Puja

[Raggs]

I’m not so bothered about how Jones has treated BCurry. He was considered above TCurry when they first broke in to the squad, was injured and TCurry took his chance to impress. Jones shouldn’t treat them any differently because they are twins. From what I saw last season Tom looks the better player with Ben having the better highlights reel. Let’s just be grateful we have them both and, injury permitting, for at least another 10 years.
The EQ backrow stock that has come into senior rugby in the last 2/3 years looks very, very promising.

I agree with the bolded bit, but I really do think he has. Ben was at least on a par with Tom last season for Sale, if not slightly ahead, and he's been continuously ignored, even when there's been back row injuries. Even Armand's had time in the training squads; BCurry's just been ignored entirely.

Puja

He's 20. Yes, his brother is ahead of him, but they are not carbon copy players, Tom is a lot more physical than Ben, and Tom has looked underpowered, Ben would be even further away from the standard. Ben will get there I'm sure.

[Digby]

Other players to look away from a suitable standard in the backrow include Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Lawes, Itoje, Shields, Underhill, Hughes and I'm sure I'm missing some other obvious examples. So being good enough isn't much of a factor whereas unlike most of that list Ben comes with a lot of potential

[Stom]

Other players to look away from a suitable standard in the backrow include Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Lawes, Itoje, Shields, Underhill, Hughes and I'm sure I'm missing some other obvious examples. So being good enough isn't much of a factor whereas unlike most of that list Ben comes with a lot of potential

But we already know that those snowballs have taken their toll on your brain...

[Stom]

So, from that squad, what does everyone want to see?

I would love to have Tuilagi at 13 and Slade at 12, but I think that's wishful thinking... So I'd go for:

Moon
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Wilson
Curry (if fit, otherwise Underhill)
Mercer
Care
Ford
Daly
Slade
Tuilagi
May
Brown

Hartley, Hepburn, Williams, Lawes, Shields, Youngs, Farrell, Nowell

What's more likely is...

Hepburn
Hartley
Sinckler
Lawtoje
Kruis
Lawtoje
Wilson
Shields
Youngs
Farrell
May
Te'o
Slade
Ashton
Daly

George, Moon, Williams, Ewels, Mercer, Care, Ford, Tuilagi

[Digby]

Other players to look away from a suitable standard in the backrow include Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Lawes, Itoje, Shields, Underhill, Hughes and I'm sure I'm missing some other obvious examples. So being good enough isn't much of a factor whereas unlike most of that list Ben comes with a lot of potential

But we already know that those snowballs have taken their toll on your brain...

Without doubt, but even then I can't be the only one continually feeling we're delivering less than we could and we're boring to watch into the bargain

[twitchy]

If eddie wants players called up to the camp they would surely be arriving today?

[Raggs]

I really enjoyed Sinckler's handling. He and Mako would make a very handy pairing in keeping the opposition guessing.

[Oakboy]

In terms of selection, who are the players in the squad, after Saturday's performance, who we'd be excited/confident about picking to start(as opposed to 'reluctantly put in as there's nobody better').

I'd probably say Moon, Wilson, Mercer, May, Daly (on the wing).

If definitely fit, I'd add Lawes. I'd add Slade if Ford was at 10 and Farrell was not starting.

That's where we are at, IMO. Maybe 5-8 players.

[fivepointer]

Dont expect wholesale changes.
Lawes and Manu are bound to feature if fit, probably from the bench.
Moon may get a start.
Underhill to replace Curry.
Brown back at FB will be tempting given our problems under the high ball but i think Eddie will stick with Daly.

[Puja]

Drop Shields for Mercer (with Wilson going to 6). If Curry's not fit, then bring in Underhill. I'd love to have Ford at 10, but barring a fortuitous toe stubbing, keep the backline the same and see whether we get second half Ben Te'o for the full game now that he's got some minutes under his belt.

However, I foresee the same team, but with Rhodes for Curry.

Puja

[Raggs]

I hope to have a go doing ruck marks (not sure when I'll have the time though, and the games don't last long on youtube). I wasn't that impressed with Mercer though. I mean he didn't **** the bed or anything, but equally I didn't think "Wow!". Would be happy to see him getting more chances, just not sure if a start against the ABs is the best bet.