RugbyRebels

Is Sam Whitelock/Brodie Retallick now definitely the best we've had?

Other contenders:
Brad Thorn/Whitelock
Brad Thorn/Ali Williams
Ali Williams/Chris Jack
Robin Brook/Ian Jones

Williams came across as a total spoofer on his European tour. While obviously i'm no expert on his NZ days. Id have thorn anyday, shame ryan got injured or eaton never came on.

In short current bozo's by a distance, thorn on the bench

I'm tempted by Chris Jack, who I think was the best, but Ali Williams as his partner is a bit of a drag factor. I'd agree that your current lot are the best pairing.

Puja

There’s been a surprising number who never really came on - Boric, Thrush, Bird etc.

Thorn was obviously a legend in his own way, but Retallick has a far broader skill set.

Williams was a better player than his last few NH tours suggested, and it’s doubtful he would survive the current “no dickheads” policy.

For me, the contest is with Jones and Brooke. Comparing eras is difficult. These guys played mostly in the amateur era and for that reason were not the athletes that SW and BR now are.

When a fella is a standout it doesn't matter the era it's obvious the likes of Jones would be good enough and excel imo

Plenty of amateurs go in the deep end and survive across multiple sports.

Ali Williams was clearly highly regarded among his peers during the Henry-era though, when that policy was formulated, and Hansen called him up in 2012 before he announced his international retirement. We also need to look at him in two distinct periods - pre-Achilles injury and post-recovery. He had some incredible high profile games and seasons as a player (1st Lions test in 2005, for example, or the 2008 Super Rugby season), but he never really was the same after he did his Achilles in. I also therefore don't really feel that Thorn/Williams should count as a test lock pairing, when it was so short-lived.

With Jack/Williams, there will always be the nagging sense that during that pairing's period of dominance, there never really was enough competition for them to hold off. It also meant Williams had to play the hard man role in the second row, which I don't think ever really suited him.

When you look at the dudes that popped up here and there though, you could tell they would've gone on to be something - Donnelly played a huge role in the All Blacks reasserting their SH dominance in 2009/2010, where he outplayed Victor Matfield who was in career-best form at the time in the 2010 Tri Nations. Jeremy Thrush's performance against a spirited Scottish team that were playing well enough on the day to beat any other side should be talked about more, because he was excellent. Boric was an absolute beast in 2010, when the All Blacks toured Europe. Boric and Donnelly in particular are cases where you've got to wonder what could've been, when they got injured and lost their spots to other players. At least Boric got himself a World Cup winner's medal. I also can't begrudge Thrush and Boric for both taking up contracts overseas, because despite his heroics in 2014, he was always going to be a bench option at best, and Boric pretty much was playing with an injury cloud over his head for the entirety of his test career.

I'd say ultimately that Jones/Brooke set the formula for our second-rowers, and Thorn/Whitelock and Retallick/Whitelock have perfected it.

What about Rawlinson?

Lizard wrote:What about Rawlinson?

Great domestic-level player, but he never really got to do much at the test level. Henry and Hansen's preference for a returning Keith Robinson, and the emergence of James Ryan and Jason Eaton meant he missed out on the EOYT in 2006, so he probably saw the writing on the wall and was gone by the end of the 2007 Tri Nations.

Considering how James Ryan and Keith Robinson both calling it a day by the end of 2007 or so, Rawlinson probably would have had a bigger role as an All Black had he stuck around, and as a 30 year-old at the start of the 2008 international season, he'd have brought some valuable maturity as a middle-management player to the squad, but we'll never really know.