RugbyRebels

Honestly, what is the fucking point of this match?

Look, I get the theory that having top teams play weaker sides can help the latter to strengthen and thus increase the global competitiveness of the game globally. I’m totally on board with that. But Italy in particular have shown absolutely no inclination at all to improve despite having a range of top quality opposition served up on a golden platter every 6 Nations for the last 19 seasons. So how exactly does it help for the All Blacks to show up every 2 or 3 years and give them another 40 or 50 point hiding?

Since 1995, we have visited Italy 6 times and hosted them twice, plus having them in our RWC pool 5 times (and a 6th time coming up next year, FFS). Add to that a further 27 matches over the same time period against the Wallabies and Springboks, with one Italian win.

Italy have over that time “progressed” from losing 70-6 in their first test against NZ (in NZ at RWC1987), to losing 70-6 again in NZ’s first visit to Italy (1995), losing 101-3 in their first professional match-up (RWC1999), going down 64-10 during their first tour to NZ (2002). All the way to a 68-10 tonking the last time the Blackness rolled into Rome (2016).

If we are going to play lesser sides in November (and I think we should) I would rather see us spread it around.

We have NEVER played a non-6N European team outside of a RWC except for that time we went to France via Romania in 1981*. Aussie are just as bad, only playing Spain in 2001, and the Springboks are worst, having never bothered at all.

Why not give Georgia a match? Or Russia? They are as likely to win as Italy and would take a lot more out of it, I reckon.

*Romania gave us a hell of fright before losing 14–6, against nearly the same side that beat France 18-6 four weeks later.

Completely agreed. A NZ test is a huge thing in driving interest and attention for Tier 2 countries (hell, even the Maori ABs are doing a fantastic job in going round the Americas at the moment), but Italy have had more than their fair share over the years and it's turned from an incredible event that's something to be promoted into just part of the calendar.

Puja

Yep. I'd rather they'd have gone somewhere like Georgia, Romania, Spain, Portugal or Germany. Like cricket, playing the same old sides again and again gets boring. Except, unlike our cricket team, we can largely choose who we play in rugby. Put that agency to good/better use.

Plus Italy drags every team down to mediocrity.

cashead wrote:Plus Italy drags every team down to mediocrity.

Yep. It’s pretty telling that the most (only?) memorable moment in Italy v NZ test matches happened in the very first one. Seriously, can you describe any event from any of the 20+ hours of Azzuri v All Blacks action that has occurred since this:

1. Ofa Tuungasfasi
2. Dane Coles
3. Nepo Laulala
4. Patrick Tuipulotu
5. Scott Barrett
6. Vaea Fifita
7. Ardie Savea
8. Kieran Read
9. TJ Perenara
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Waisake Naholo
12. Ngani Laumape
13. Anton Lienert-Brown
14. Jordie Barrett
15. Damian McKenzie

16. Nathan Harris
17. Karl Tu'inukuafe
18. Angus Ta'avao
19. Brodie Retallick
20. Dalton Papalii
21. Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi
22. Richie Mo'unga
23. Rieko Ioane

Wasted opportunity to play Mo'unga/Barrett in tandem and to give Papali'i and Tahuriorangi extended runs at blindside and halfback.

When did we last try the 3 fullbacks gambit?

Wow - NZ not letting up on Italy it would seem…

Renniks wrote:Wow - NZ not letting up on Italy it would seem…

You don’t think that keeping only 4 of last week’s starting XV is taking it easy on them?

Lizard wrote:

Renniks wrote:Wow - NZ not letting up on Italy it would seem…

You don’t think that keeping only 4 of last week’s starting XV is taking it easy on them?

Not when quite a few of the 11 you bring in are better than our matchday 23

Lizard wrote:

Renniks wrote:Wow - NZ not letting up on Italy it would seem…

You don’t think that keeping only 4 of last week’s starting XV is taking it easy on them?

No way; those 11 are certified losers now.

Puja

Silvercloud wrote:Still alive! Still using the font! Still hanging around here occasionally! Still supporting the All Blacks and NZ rugby in general amidst a sea of English rugby supporters!

Can anyone help me with a reliable live stream for the Italy match please?

SC

sign up to All Blacks theyve been doing live streams.

sign up to All Blacks theyve been doing live streams.

Thanks Doorzet (how are you?) Already have and watched the
Japan and Maori v Chile games, but they aren't doing this one. Probably cos it's on Premier Sports here in UK?

Well, let that be a lesson to you, Italy.

Were the five tries by one Barrett or a plethora?

A training run against a static tier 1 side that cannot be arsed.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Were the five tries by one Barrett or a plethora?

4 to Jordie, 1 to Beaudy. Scotty failed to score one.

Tah, poor show, Scotty.

OK, so impressions of the game now that there's been time to digest it:

1. Tight five depth is fine. Tu'ungafasi is either a specialist reserve prop on the tighthead side, or a solid loosehead option. Either way, he's found his feet at the test level. Coles is quality, and Taylor has benefited massively from Coles' injuries, which benefits the team as a whole. This was also probably Paddy T's best test in a while, and he needed a good showing.

2. Squires has a shitload of work to do. This was Fifita's first test since June, and his first start all year, and he was clearly fixing to prove a point at the expense of the Italians. Papali'i would probably also be better suited as a 6.5, rather than an outright 7 (he'll probably be playing at 6 a lot for the Blues next year anyway if fellow St Kents Old Collegian Blake Gibson can stay fit), and showed more than Squires has all year. While it's not fair to pin the blame on Squires, it was noticeable how much better the forwards played with Fifita at 6, especially Read.

3. Aaron Smith needs his workload to be better managed. He's clearly knackered.

4. 2 fullbacks in the back three is the way to go. It has been for a while, and it won't stop being.

5. Midfield is still in a state of flux. Right now, there are 3 strong options (ALB, Crotty and Goodhue) and 1 that is very much a valuable weapon (Laumape), with one potentially valuable option on the way back, albeit with a bit of mileage (Nonu). SBW, like Squires, needs a big season with the Blues at this stage.

SBW is on the wane I reckon.

Silvercloud wrote:Nonu again? Is this serious or just media speculation? As much as I "loved" him back then, I'm not a big fan of retrograde steps - common on guys, you can be more creative than that! Or perhaps Ma'a will prove me wrong......

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwiyTutO-no

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP4yoXv92fE

Silvercloud wrote:Nonu again? Is this serious or just media speculation? As much as I "loved" him back then, I'm not a big fan of retrograde steps - common on guys, you can be more creative than that! Or perhaps Ma'a will prove me wrong......

If he can still hack it, he can still hack it. He was the most reliable and consistent line-breaker this country had, and he's certainly someone that the ABs have struggled to replace.

Good to see you back in the mix Cloudage.