Slade

[Mikey Brown]

Right, I’m bored out of my mind in a waiting room at the moment.

Slade hasn’t achieved what any of us had hoped, frankly, but I imagine there’s some disagreement why.

His first few caps seems to come scattered over the course of a few years, in different positions, with different setups/coaches alongside different players. I think the current set of inside backs is the most settled his played with in terms of minutes together as a unit?

So his biggest problems have been defence, handling and not making his rare instances in some space with the ball count for anything. I’d say there’s a mix of systematic and personal failures in there.

I’ve probably been one of his biggest champions on here but I can’t tell if he’s worth a space anymore or not. At the same time as accepting that some players simply aren’t as skilled as him (so will be measured by a different standard?) or are immune from criticism (so it doesn’t matter how many missed tackles or duff passes they do) he seems to have made more mistakes than I can remember at this level, with the good moments getting fewer and far between.

Is that fair? I don’t envy anyone having to play 13 in this system, we made Joseph look pretty gash for the most part but he just happens to be an astounding defender.

Is Te’o any more deserving of a spot? I can understand Te’o as an impact player or a placeholder for Tuilagi, but I don’t know about starting 12 on merit? I didn’t see the full Aus game.

I was always of the opinion we should have looked at Slade and Farrell when the 12 issue needed addressing after the World Cup and seen that he is more skilled in basically every area of the game, and built on that, but it seems there’s something that just doesn’t click at this level.

I wondered when Cokanisiga made that break and totally ignored Slade on his left whether that was down to him having the blinkers on or that he wasn’t hearing anything from outside him? Everyone loves talking about how loud Farrell is, but Baxter and multiple Leicester coaches have talked about how vocal both Ford and Slade are for their clubs.

TL;DR - does Slade make the World Cup squad on form? Versatility? Lack of time/options? Is it just a case of Joseph coming back to full fitness or his ability to cover 15 going to be worth something?

[Mikey Brown]

Just count yourselves lucky I couldn’t find the poll option.

[Stom]

He's been screwed over royally by a systematic turn towards rugby by numbers.

He is not a numbers player.

He's about as far from a numbers player as you're likely to get.

If he was Australian, he'd have 50 caps.

We're not likely to change system, so there's no point in picking a player who does not fit.

[Mellsblue]

Very talented player who, for me, makes too many simple, unnecessary mistakes at test level. Whether it’s misplaced passes, missed tackles or dropping balls. In his defence, he’s played either outside Ford - Farrell and been asked to play an alien role or outside Farrell - Te’o and seen virtually no ball (I’m convinced that dropped ball on Saturday was the shock of actually receiving it in the first place. I say this only slightly tongue in cheek).
Once Joseph and Tuilagi are fit and firing I can’t see him keeping his place, beyond a hope that his undoubted talents will eventually transfer to test rugby.

[Digby]

The main thing Slade offers as a centre is the side plays toward the middle and you can split the field with Slade and Farrell, or he goes on the same side as the 10 and one looks to get to the edge of the defence. Both of those can also be done with Ford and Farrell, and to work to the edge of a blitz can see you needing to go 20m if not 30m backwards and we're rarely up for that so one of his possible strengths is negated (England will go wide against a stressed defence but obviously even with Billy V it's not easy to stress a test defence carrying hard off 9)

Which leaves the question of what can a very talented player offer given our selection and tactics?

[fivepointer]

Not a thread on the virtues of Noddy Holder & Co then?

Henry has talent to burn but his application lets him down too many times. A player this good shouldnt be making the dull errors that crop up too often.

Its a great pity that he hasnt really produced his best and i sense that we wont see that under the current England management.

[Scrumhead]

He's been screwed over royally by a systematic turn towards rugby by numbers.

He is not a numbers player.

He's about as far from a numbers player as you're likely to get.

If he was Australian, he'd have 50 caps.

We're not likely to change system, so there's no point in picking a player who does not fit.

Not if he kept making such basic errors.

I was a big advocate of Slade’s but now I can’t wait for JJ or Tuilagi to replace him at 13. At best he’s been anonymous, at worst, he’s bordering on being a liability.

Reading the comments so far, it feels like he’s being absolved of any responsibility by pinning blame on the ‘system’ and I feel that’s too generous. Even if we do want to give him that excuse, it doesn’t really wash when he’s now had something like 8-10 consecutive games in the 13 shirt and not looked up to it in any of them.

Missing tackles because of a systematic error is excusable, but I feel like a fair few of those he has missed have been down to poor technique rather than the opposition exploiting flaws in our system.

Watching the replays of Cokanasiga’s break, it didn’t even look like he was calling for the ball which is telling too.

[Stom]

He's been screwed over royally by a systematic turn towards rugby by numbers.

He is not a numbers player.

He's about as far from a numbers player as you're likely to get.

If he was Australian, he'd have 50 caps.

We're not likely to change system, so there's no point in picking a player who does not fit.

Not if he kept making such basic errors.

I was a big advocate of Slade’s but now I can’t wait for JJ or Tuilagi to replace him at 13. At best he’s been anonymous, at worst, he’s bordering on being a liability.

Reading the comments so far, it feels like he’s being absolved of any responsibility by pinning blame on the ‘system’ and I feel that’s too generous. Even if we do want to give him that excuse, it doesn’t really wash when he’s now had something like 8-10 consecutive games in the 13 shirt and not looked up to it in any of them.

Missing tackles because of a systematic error is excusable, but I feel like a fair few of those he has missed have been down to poor technique rather than the opposition exploiting flaws in our system.

Watching the replays of Cokanasiga’s break, it didn’t even look like he was calling for the ball which is telling too.

After the weekend are you sure of that...

[p/d]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

[Puja]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

Hasn't, doesn't appear to want to, and his impressive performances for Exeter early this season were due to him showing a 13's skills, not a 12's. Until and unless he actually plays there, calling him the answer at 12 strikes me as fantasy along the lines of, "Wouldn't Itoje make a great 8?"

I'm starting to think Slade is Alex Goode redux - looks great at Prem level, looks to have all the skills, shows glimpses at international level, but ultimately can't quite step up.

Puja

[Oakboy]

I think JJ and Slade are both superb natural rugby players.

JJ, pre-Jones, was a significant attacking threat. Jones's system neutered him.

Slade is a natural 12 but potentially a good international 13 in the right set-up.

Neither are Tuilagi. If our only impactful midfield style depends on a unique bludgeon then we are not going to win significant competitions because Tuilagi cannot be relied upon to be fit.

Maybe, Jones has to think outside the box and develop Underhill or somebody to understudy Tuilagi in the battering-ram carrying role.

But, wait, there are only 9 games left. As ever, it's a case of not starting from here. The style is here to stay, so I suspect Slade is too, even if only to share a shirt with Tuilagi.

[Rich]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

Shouldn't be in the squad.

Centers (if/when all fit) should be: Te'o, Tuilagi and JJ

[Peat]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

Hasn't, doesn't appear to want to, and his impressive performances for Exeter early this season were due to him showing a 13's skills, not a 12's. Until and unless he actually plays there, calling him the answer at 12 strikes me as fantasy along the lines of, "Wouldn't Itoje make a great 8?"

I'm starting to think Slade is Alex Goode redux - looks great at Prem level, looks to have all the skills, shows glimpses at international level, but ultimately can't quite step up.

Puja

I was going to go with Twelvetrees as I think Slade is let down more by his mistakes than by his inability to make a big impact... but either way, yes. All players who looked to have all the skills until you looked at them at international level and realised none of those were skills were quite freakishly good enough to make for a stand out international.

[Digby]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

He does look a 12, to the extent one allows there's a distinction in the centre roles of course

[padprop]

12T has actually had a better England career than Slade so far IMO. Him and Burrell looked the business for 3-4 games, whereas Slade has struggled to look more than a 6/10.

Even Shontayne Hape had a man of the match performance in him.

[morepork]

Just poach an ageing league player and drop him straight in.

[Renniks]

Just poach an ageing league player and drop him straight in.

Nah, we're still looking for more SH players we can poach

[padprop]

Just poach an ageing league player and drop him straight in.

Well you take all the young ones in SBW and Laumape, there's nothing else left

[morepork]

Just poach an ageing league player and drop him straight in.

Well you take all the young ones in SBW and Laumape, there's nothing else left

No, no. You're after someone 30+ years old and northern you are.

[Digby]

[Redacted] is nearly 30, just saying

Moderated for foul language - Puja

[Scrumhead]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

Hasn't, doesn't appear to want to, and his impressive performances for Exeter early this season were due to him showing a 13's skills, not a 12's. Until and unless he actually plays there, calling him the answer at 12 strikes me as fantasy along the lines of, "Wouldn't Itoje make a great 8?"

I'm starting to think Slade is Alex Goode redux - looks great at Prem level, looks to have all the skills, shows glimpses at international level, but ultimately can't quite step up.

Puja

It’s beginning to look that way ...

Although Goode didn’t get the security blanket/immunity element of people blaming the system.

[morepork]

Uh Oh. Someone said the B-word.

[Oakboy]

Quality.

Should playing at 12 for both Exeter and England.

Hasn't, doesn't appear to want to, and his impressive performances for Exeter early this season were due to him showing a 13's skills, not a 12's. Until and unless he actually plays there, calling him the answer at 12 strikes me as fantasy along the lines of, "Wouldn't Itoje make a great 8?"

I'm starting to think Slade is Alex Goode redux - looks great at Prem level, looks to have all the skills, shows glimpses at international level, but ultimately can't quite step up.

Puja

It’s beginning to look that way ...

Although Goode didn’t get the security blanket/immunity element of people blaming the system.

Goode was announced as somebody special who could provide the 2nd receiver role coming into the line from deep. What we got was the soft-shoe-shuffle and the spectacle of him being thrown back where he had come from.

Slade has stood up physically.

[Mellsblue]

Hasn't, doesn't appear to want to, and his impressive performances for Exeter early this season were due to him showing a 13's skills, not a 12's. Until and unless he actually plays there, calling him the answer at 12 strikes me as fantasy along the lines of, "Wouldn't Itoje make a great 8?"

I'm starting to think Slade is Alex Goode redux - looks great at Prem level, looks to have all the skills, shows glimpses at international level, but ultimately can't quite step up.

Puja

It’s beginning to look that way ...

Although Goode didn’t get the security blanket/immunity element of people blaming the system.

Goode was announced as somebody special who could provide the 2nd receiver role coming into the line from deep. What we got was the soft-shoe-shuffle and the spectacle of him being thrown back where he had come from.

Slade has stood up physically.

Apart from the missed tackles. Also sounds like a defence some would put forward for Farrell.

[Oakboy]

It’s beginning to look that way ...

Although Goode didn’t get the security blanket/immunity element of people blaming the system.

Goode was announced as somebody special who could provide the 2nd receiver role coming into the line from deep. What we got was the soft-shoe-shuffle and the spectacle of him being thrown back where he had come from.

Slade has stood up physically.

Apart from the missed tackles. Also sounds like a defence some would put forward for Farrell.

Fair comment but Slade is not the lightweight fairy that some claim. That was all I was suggesting.

Don't you get fed up with physicality being all that matters? JJ, Slade, Cipriani, Ford etc. can't cut it cause all they have is skill. Big Joe is wonderful and Tuilagi transformed the English season in 5 minutes against a crap, knackered Australian bunch of misfits. Now Jones thinks it's Christmas already because he can pick a back line of mammoths.

A midfield of Farrell, T'eo and Tuilagi, with JC on the wing might make some orgasmic but it just makes me yearn for flair and creativity.

Rant over.