Early 6N discussion thread

[Big D]

So, after as close to two weeks of Scotland trials as we are likely to ever get do we think anything has changed ahead of the 6N? Only watched the second game once and was at times distracted so may have missed bits.

Looks like Dell will be 1st choice LHP but lack of game time and alternatives a concern. Once Kebble (summer 2020?) qualifies we'll be a little stronger. Pity Schoeman will be a 5 year residency requirement.
Rambo is unchallenged. Cherry and maybe Kerr (1st bad game I have seen him play last weekend) possible back ups. Ford seemingly fading away.
Nel and Beghan look to be fairly unchallenged.
For me the second rows are GG plus one. Gray has money in the bank and probably his partner but was outplayed in both games. Skinner apparently playing well down south. When is Richie G back?
6 is an interesting one, Hamilton playing well, Ashe has been good for Glasgow but Richie would be my preference based on performance at 6 would be Richie.
7 is Watsons. Hardie has looked good with Newcastle so may be a squad option.
8 - Wilson was a complete non factor except for a possibly accidental foot in the face to GG. Ashe may be worth a look at 8 if Thompson isn't fit.

9 - Nothing has changed. Pyrgos showing he could possibly be an option for the Laidlaw role of "senior/control of game 9" should Laidlaw get hurt.
10 - Hastings is having a slight slump but not to worried as it is to be expected. VdW is a strange one, does things well but others not so well, may become an option next year through lack of numbers.

Centres - Nothing new learned. Dunbar hurt, why was he playing with so much strapping? I expect Johnson to be involved in the 6N squad.

Wings/FB - Seymour getting by on reputation? Does Kinghorn deserve a shot on the wing in the 6N? Graham impressed. Duhan VdM, should he keep developing will be a real option next set of AIs (2020).

At the moment against Italy I would go with:
Dell, Rambo, Nel
GG, JGray
Ritchie, Thompson, Watson
Laidlaw
Russell
Kinghorn
Horne/Johnson
Jones
Maitland
Hogg

Cherry/Kerr/Ford (whichever shows any sort of form)
Bhatti (I guess)
Beghan
Skinner
Ashe
Horne Jnr
Hastings
Johnson

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I thought Seymour had started showing some good form this season. Last season he was getting by on reputation for sure. With Kinghorn we now have genuine competition and a strong bench option for the back 3.

[whatisthejava]

Think mine is

Dell, Rambo , Nell
Gg, skinner
Richie, Watson , fagerson
Laidlaw
Russel
Seymore
Horne
Jones
Maitland
Hogg

Kerr
?
Berghan
Jg
Thompson
Gh
Hastings
Kinghorn

[no sleep]

Are Gray Sr, Barclay, Taylor, Scott expected back any time soon?
I haven't seen much of Fagerson - is he a decent option at 8 at international level?
Seymore seemed to get a bit of form back before his contract extension, but I'd have Kinghorn before him for the 6N.

[no sleep]

Btw, re Fagerson, from what I've seen he looks good, but I think I'd rather see him (or any 6/8) get game-time at 6 before moving to 8, or coming in in a more experienced back row like with Barclay at 6 rather than Ritchie (and preferably both).

[General Zod]

I think the starting second rows at the moment are GG and SS. However, I don’t think we’ll see that - JG will start. May even end up seeing SS shoehorned in at 6 (or even 8!).

Matt Fagerson should def be in the squad and Ashe has been playing well too. Pick at least one of them after seeing how they go v Blues and Saracens.

I would also be tempted to involve Darcy Graham v Italy at some point.

[Big D]

The Glasgow squad selection for the Euro games will be interesting. Going to be hard for Townsend to pick someone in his 23 who is left out of the big club games.

Will also be interesting if he, like I suspect will stick with his favourites Gray and Wilson.

[Mikey Brown]

Are people actually selecting Laidlaw because they want him or because they think it's already been decided by GT? I've gone over my reasons enough, but I would have him on the bench.

I think we're all pretty much agreed on the problem areas you identify;

1, depth at 2, combo at lock, 6/8, 12.

I'm still unconvinced by Dell, but await some miraculous return to form (or residency) from one of the others to really dislodge him.

Skinner and Gilchrist sounds like a good pairing to me. It's probably our biggest combo too, which I wouldn't dismiss given our lack of heft at 1/6/8. Gray off the bench with an incentive to make a big impact (rather than knowing he has to guard the fringes and clean up crap ball for a solid 80 because nobody else wants to do it) would be nice. Remember when he used to regularly make metres in contact?

Ashe has to get a chance if fit, but that's an enormous if. He didn't play last weekend did he? Also totally agree him and Fagerson need to be the other way around. I really like Fagerson but need to be patient. He's still only 20. I really like Ritchie, but as with Fagerson it seems a bit pointless having him alongside Wilson. Hamilton is like Grigg to me, great effort but I just don't see it.

Barclay. Thomson and Ashe would all make my 23 if fit, but I have no idea if any of the 3 will be and that's quite a big concern. I guess Strauss otherwise, but doesn't seem to making the starting team at sale currently.

Along with Thomson and Ashe, not seeing any of Scott or Johnson at 12 in the AIs was the other major disappointment for me, as I've said before. It's so frustrating that we haven't developed a decent pairing or any consistency here.

Horne is generally good but makes a pretty major mistake basically every game. Dunbar's body seems knackered or unreliable or something, one week he appears to have a bit of his old pace back next week he looks like 35 year old Mike Tindall again. Grigg isn't up to it at the top level. Harris looks to offer some of the heavy, straight-running threat we need but is a 13 and Jones has that spot sewn up for now.

I'm tempted to agree on Seymour, as with Gray. Maitland is playing very well and looks a bit more powerful these days. Kinghorn isn't making things spark quite as much as when he first appeared (I think) but seems to look dangerous every time he gets a chance on the wing for Scotland.

So in summary, nothing has really changed. We've had all these issues for a while, but some tweaks in selection and a lot of luck with injuries/fitness might see us make some big improvements.

I'm very curious what the Glasgow debrief from the 1872 games has been RE: every time we face a mean pack we get pushed around. Has GT got any sort of a plan for this except pick more Edinburgh players?

[Cameo]

The thing with the Glasgow debrief is they would have liked to think that they had proven they could deal with big packs from some of their earlier big games this season. Edinburgh games a real set back.

Agree with most people's thoughts here. I'd start G Horne at 9 but won't happen. I also think there is a chance for Sam Johnson over the next three weeks as none of the others are nailling it. For the first time, I wouldnt pick J Gray with GG and Skinner probably my pairing but that could change over the next couple of weeks (harsh to put JG in the same category as Eilson though). Finally, in the back row I would like Fagerson to get the bench spot with Watson at 7, possibly Ritchie at 6 and Thomson/Ashe/AN Other at 8

[switchskier]

Most of it's been said already but I'll thriw Fenton into the mix at hooker as apparently he's almost back to fitness and I think was Rambos backup early in the season.

For me Ritchie is the form blindside, but he doesn't have much if a carrying game. Watson does well for his size but he's still small so either we need Faegerson senior back to his rampaging best or to go with Ashe or Skinner at 8. I suspect we'll see a bit of the later with Gray and Gilchrist in the second row.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Despite the fact he's not been capped I still regard Chib as one of the best loose forwards we have. Need to find a spot for him.

[General Zod]

Despite the fact he's not been capped I still regard Chib as one of the best loose forwards we have. Need to find a spot for him.

Is he playing at the moment?

[Big D]

Is there a reasoned discussion to be had about WFD and Hastings? I'm still.of the opinion there isn't and Hastings will come good but I can see the reasons but taking him out the firing line.

[OptimisticJock]

WFD?

[ARM]

Is there a reasoned discussion to be had about WFD and Hastings? I'm still.of the opinion there isn't and Hastings will come good but I can see the reasons but taking him out the firing line.

Yeah there’s a debate to be had but neither are Test class players. Hastings may become one. Both struggle playing flat to the line and can come unstuck against aggressive blitz defences.

Good to see WFD performing well at Worcester and looks like his goalkicking is back to a strength. Latterly at Glasgow and also at Embra he regressed to a 65-70% kicker. In hindsight, the groin injury may have impacted his kicking form.

[OptimisticJock]

I don't remember it being that low at embra. He also seemed to be improving his weaker areas, which going by reports, he is continuing to do. There's definitely an argument to have different styles of players on the bench to change the game.

[Big D]

WFD?

Harshly, wee fat dunc.

[OptimisticJock]

I clicked after I posted.

[Big D]

Is there a reasoned discussion to be had about WFD and Hastings? I'm still.of the opinion there isn't and Hastings will come good but I can see the reasons but taking him out the firing line.

Yeah there’s a debate to be had but neither are Test class players. Hastings may become one. Both struggle playing flat to the line and can come unstuck against aggressive blitz defences.

Good to see WFD performing well at Worcester and looks like his goalkicking is back to a strength. Latterly at Glasgow and also at Embra he regressed to a 65-70% kicker. In hindsight, the groin injury may have impacted his kicking form.

I get that neither currently are test class. However, Hastings is still a young lad so needs looked after a bit and this is a world cup year.

I think Rennie probably hoped Hastings would have a game to take confidence from but it has now been a while (in relative terms) since he had a very good game. And playing him in the 6N may harm him more than benefit him.

Weir, now appears to be in control of his game, that is he know what he can and crucially what he can't.

In a RWC year it may be quite the conundrum for GT if Hastings continues as he is.

[Big D]

Watching the worcs highlights. Nice touches including winning con by Weir and a bonkers amount of cards. Bath had 11 at one point.

[General Zod]

I think Pete Horne will be back up 10 at the mo - he’ll be starting v Cardiff anyway as Hastings has played 5 in a row.

Am pleased with the problems at second row, in that it’s a good problem! Not that it is likely to matter for this year’s 6 nations, but I’m impressed with Calum Hunter-Hill so far.

The more I see of Darcy G, the more I like!

When’s Fagerson senior back? And when’s Richie Gray back?

[OptimisticJock]

There's a tweet saying Hastings is currently exempt from that 5 game rule.

[Mikey Brown]

I feel Gray has been out so long that he’s not worth considering until he’s put a long string of games together. I hope Fagerson is well handled after so long out, he was very young to be playing the amount he was at the top level.

[General Zod]

In a non-rugby related matter, what’s that up & under bar like at Murrayfield and can you buy tickets to get in after the match? Is there a massive queue? (In which case I’m not bothering).

[Chunks Baws]

Anyone know what's happening with Chib Thomson? I had hoped he was going to be the answer for us at 8. Is he still out with concussion?