RugbyRebels

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35768674

"Sunday trading defeat for government as MP's reject changes"

whilst I'm not in favour of extending retail Sunday hours, really cant see the point!! I really do have a problem with what the SNP have done by voting against it.

The SNP have said "The SNP says the decision was not made to make life difficult for shoppers in England, but to protect the pay of retail workers in Scotland."

"Shop staff currently get a premium for working on a Sunday but the SNP - and unions like Usdaw - believe an extension to Sunday shopping hours in England and Wales would increase the likelihood that retailers would pay just single time for staff across the whole of the UK."

This to me is an absolute joke, We have no say on their politics , but they have a say on ours! To me this is fundamentally wrong.

I think the SNP have crossed a line that they cannot retreat from and I have lost all sympathy for them.

stud muffin wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35768674

"Sunday trading defeat for government as MP's reject changes"

whilst I'm not in favour of extending retail Sunday hours, really cant see the point!! I really do have a problem with what the SNP have done by voting against it.

The SNP have said "The SNP says the decision was not made to make life difficult for shoppers in England, but to protect the pay of retail workers in Scotland."

"Shop staff currently get a premium for working on a Sunday but the SNP - and unions like Usdaw - believe an extension to Sunday shopping hours in England and Wales would increase the likelihood that retailers would pay just single time for staff across the whole of the UK."

This to me is an absolute joke, We have no say on their politics , but they have a say on ours! To me this is fundamentally wrong.

I think the SNP have crossed a line that they cannot retreat from and I have lost all sympathy for them.

Not sure what is wrong here. They took legal advice on it (or the union did), they were advised that the Ingerlish proposal could adversely effect the higher pay rate Scottish workers get for working on a Sunday. They have a duty to protect Scottish worker's wages (particularly as these can be at the low end of the pay scale) or praps more pertinently, cannot look like they have not backed Scottish workers. They have said they will try to vote only on policy that effects Scotland and this clearly does. What's the issue?

Tories have a majority so enough of them were against it as well
I think the negatives outweight the positives of opening any longer

Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

The SNP didn't bring it into Scotland.

Sandydragon wrote:

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

As already pointed out, it had nothing to do with dislike for the Tories or any other spurious accusation, the SNP voted against it to protect Scottish shop workers.
The HoC has a procedure in place to prevent the SNP voting on certain matters, it was not invoked in this instance therefore anyone with a complaint about the SNP action should direct it to the Speaker of the House.

Sandydragon wrote:

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

SNP mps were the only ones who have abstained from voting on previous bills. MPs from other parties haven't.

It's also the UK parliament not an English parliament and it effects Scottish wages so they have every right to vote on what they believe is best for their constituents.

But the Scottish Parliament could then legislate locally if they felt it was needed.

The concern here was unions warning that big business could stipulate pay awards across the sterling area. That could happen anyway. Scottish shops can already open for longer so there is already inequality between north and south of the border.

This is a principle that if the law only applies in England and Wales then only those MPs from those areas should vote. Personally I'm all for national parliaments where this could be devolved down, leaving the uk parliament to sort it foreign affairs etc. However, since we don't have that,there has to be a logical way to deal with the effects of devolution across the uk. Therefore, the only way it can work is if MPs from devolved regions don't vote on bills that their devolved legislatures can sort out for themselves. This would be one of those areas and it sets a dangerous precedent.

Sandydragon wrote:

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

Lost that right?

They lost the right to lose that right when they lost the referendum. UK parliament, Scotland still part of the UK (cos we're better together) so why on earth should they not vote on it. If nothing than for the lolz

Why should they let it get that far? It effects Scotland and as Scottish MPs their first priority is to their constituents. It's happening in the UK parliament and effects Scotland. Vote the shit out of it.

Tre wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

stud muffin wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm against any longer hours in Sunday trading, But I don't see how the SNP can bring it into Scotland yet Vote against it in England & Wales.

The old adage goes" you can't have your cake and eat it" or "Do as we say not as we do"

Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

Lost that right?

They lost the right to lose that right when they lost the referendum. UK parliament, Scotland still part of the UK (cos we're better together) so why on earth should they not vote on it. If nothing than for the lolz

"Better Together" as long as the jocks know their place, sit in the corner and shut up.

Stones of granite wrote:

Tre wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Agree. Take aside anyone's dislike of the Torres or this issue, it doesn't affect Scotland and the SNP shouldn't be voting either way. They lost that right, or should have, when they got their own parliament for such matters.

Lost that right?

They lost the right to lose that right when they lost the referendum. UK parliament, Scotland still part of the UK (cos we're better together) so why on earth should they not vote on it. If nothing than for the lolz

"Better Together" as long as the jocks know their place, sit in the corner and shut up.

You've lost the right to democracy, sorry.

Tre wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Tre wrote:
Lost that right?

They lost the right to lose that right when they lost the referendum. UK parliament, Scotland still part of the UK (cos we're better together) so why on earth should they not vote on it. If nothing than for the lolz

"Better Together" as long as the jocks know their place, sit in the corner and shut up.

You've lost the right to democracy, sorry.

I know, I know....

Hang on... We've lost the right to democracy? So, if I've followed the posts on this argument correctly, its perfectly Ok for SNP mps to exercise their democratic right to vote on a matter for england and wales as it also affects Scotland, but simultaneously the "jocks" have to sit in the corner and shut up as we've lost the right to democracy?


The oh-so-positive nationalists. Completely disconnected thinking since forever.


For the record, and before anyone puts words in my mouth, I agree that as it affected Scotland the SNP had a perfect right to vote on it. Going from there, to anguished cries of us having lost democracy is slightly bizarre, but there you go.

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Donny osmond wrote:Hang on... We've lost the right to democracy? So, if I've followed the posts on this argument correctly, its perfectly Ok for SNP mps to exercise their democratic right to vote on a matter for england and wales as it also affects Scotland, but simultaneously the "jocks" have to sit in the corner and shut up as we've lost the right to democracy?


The oh-so-positive nationalists. Completely disconnected thinking since forever.


For the record, and before anyone puts words in my mouth, I agree that as it affected Scotland the SNP had a perfect right to vote on it. Going from there, to anguished cries of us having lost democracy is slightly bizarre, but there you go.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Is it your Aspergers that makes you take everything you read literally?

Stones of granite wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:Hang on... We've lost the right to democracy? So, if I've followed the posts on this argument correctly, its perfectly Ok for SNP mps to exercise their democratic right to vote on a matter for england and wales as it also affects Scotland, but simultaneously the "jocks" have to sit in the corner and shut up as we've lost the right to democracy?


The oh-so-positive nationalists. Completely disconnected thinking since forever.


For the record, and before anyone puts words in my mouth, I agree that as it affected Scotland the SNP had a perfect right to vote on it. Going from there, to anguished cries of us having lost democracy is slightly bizarre, but there you go.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Is it your Aspergers that makes you take everything you read literally?

Humble apologies... Please explain what nuance I have missed that I may not again misread your posts?

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Donny osmond wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:Hang on... We've lost the right to democracy? So, if I've followed the posts on this argument correctly, its perfectly Ok for SNP mps to exercise their democratic right to vote on a matter for england and wales as it also affects Scotland, but simultaneously the "jocks" have to sit in the corner and shut up as we've lost the right to democracy?


The oh-so-positive nationalists. Completely disconnected thinking since forever.


For the record, and before anyone puts words in my mouth, I agree that as it affected Scotland the SNP had a perfect right to vote on it. Going from there, to anguished cries of us having lost democracy is slightly bizarre, but there you go.

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

Is it your Aspergers that makes you take everything you read literally?

Humble apologies... Please explain what nuance I have missed that I may not again misread your posts?

Sent from my XT1052 using Tapatalk

If you can't see it, I doubt that I can explain it to you. I recommend reading the thread again and imagining you are in a pub listening to a conversation.