RugbyRebels

So, the seasonal structure shake-up by World Rugby got leaked, and whoo boy, I hope you like watching the same teams play each other ad nauseum forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, with no room whatsoever for anyone else.

The basics are as follows:

The 6 Nations will remain as is, and the Rugby Champs will include Japan and the USA.
Seems a bit fucked up that the Southern Hemisphere teams, Japanese and Americans have to circumnavigate the globe and cross the equator multiple times, while the Euroboys only travel a comparatively minuscule distance, but whatever.

The season then gets structured as follows:
1. 6 Nations - England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, France and Italy play each other like they do each year.

2. Mid-year tests - Each of the Rugby Champs sides play three of the 6 Nations teams, selected at random. So, no more of the 3-test series that we've had recently. Whom you get is entirely up to chance, so one year, you could get a tasty selection of, say, England, then France, then Ireland. Another year, you could end up with perpetual failure-junkies Italy, a generally pretty OK Wales and a perpetually about 5% worse than the opposition Scotland, which wouldn't be as exciting. But whatever, it's not too far off of what we've been doing.

3. Rugby Champs - All Blacks, Wallabies, Springboks and the Pumas will play each other, with the Brave Blossoms and Eagles thrown into the mix. As stated earlier, the amount of travel involved seems a bit fucked up, and not conducive to preventing player burnout.

4. Autumn Internationals - The Rugby champs teams travel to Europe to take on the other three 6 Nations teams they didn't play earlier in the year. OK, then.

At the end, the top 4 ranked teams then have a mini-playoff to determine the World Champions for that year.


Now, this all seems like good, structured fun. "Hang on," the more observant of us may note, "where are the Pacific Island teams, and the Tier Two sides that are there or thereabouts like Canada, Romania, Russia, Georgia, Spain, Portugal and the assorted Central and South American teams? And what about the Lions Tours? And is there room for the Barbarians fixture that can be a bit of fun?"

And that's where the contention lies. It's clear what World Rugby and Brett Gosper is saying. "Fuck you brown motherfuckers, fuck the Romanians and the Georgians and the Spaniards and the Russians and the Portuguese and the Canadians and, well, fuck the Latino crowd too. Fuck the Lions, and apparently fuck the Barbarians also."

This isn't a revolutionary restructure for test rugby to take it into the future, it's a clear move to ring-fence test rugby into the haves and the have-nots, leaving the latter to scrap amongst themselves into what is pretty much a desolate wasteland, setting up those territories to be scouted and plundered for talent by the Tier One sides (funny how the European teams have started fielding some Pasifika players here and there, isn't it?) and a move to hobble the Pacific Island sides, because those brown motherfuckers had the temerity to compete against and compare well against the Home Nations sides. The previous structure wasn't perfect, and no one would argue that, but at least the Pacific Island teams got to play against the Wallabies, All Blacks and 6 Nations teams on a regular basis, including the odd test match at home. With this new structure, they don't even get that. The format is supposed to feature the Top 12 teams in the world, so where is 9th ranked Fiji? World Rugby, formerly the International Rugby Board, has a long history of fucking over Pacific Island teams, and at least one of Samoa, Fiji or Tonga getting fucked over in a World Cup year seems to be a tradition since 1995.

The reaction from the players has been quite telling, with Kieran Read already stating his dislike of the format, bringing up player burn-out, and the lock-out of Pacific Island players. Prominent and influential Pacific Island players are contemplating a boycott of the World Cup later this year. What we're seeing now, is an attempt to kill test rugby through short-sighted avarice and stupidity.

cashead wrote:This isn't a revolutionary restructure for test rugby to take it into the future, it's a clear move to ring-fence test rugby into the haves and the have-nots, leaving the latter to scrap amongst themselves into what is pretty much a desolate wasteland, setting up those territories to be scouted and plundered for talent by the Tier One sides (funny how the European teams have started fielding some Pasifika players here and there, isn't it?) and a move to hobble the Pacific Island sides, because those brown motherfuckers had the temerity to compete against and compare well against the Home Nations sides.

I think you'll find it's not the Home Nations that are pushing for this!

Frankly, I think it's dead in the water from the start. The sheer scale of the public antipathy to it from players and fans alike has torpedoed it before it could even begin, and good riddance to the stupid idea. Like you said, the existing structure is a long way from perfect, but this is in no way a solution to any of the problems. Aside from how to make NZ and Australia more money in the short-term, of course.

Puja

No, I don't think the Home Nations would be pushing for it because I don't think they can possibly be that short-sighted, even if they would benefit from having an entirely new crop of players at their disposal that would be dying to play some test rugby.

It's also occurred to me that it destroys any possibility of a Grand Slam tour by the SH sides as well, which is still seen as a serious achievement down here.

However, if you look at how World Rugby, and the IRB as they were once known, has treated the Pacific Island teams, it does paint a pretty damning portrait, especially around World Cup time.

It's about money, sales, nothing else matters. It's a product. I feel so disillusioned, does anyone have a good new illusion?

cashead wrote:No, I don't think the Home Nations would be pushing for it because I don't think they can possibly be that short-sighted, even if they would benefit from having an entirely new crop of players at their disposal that would be dying to play some test rugby.

It's also occurred to me that it destroys any possibility of a Grand Slam tour by the SH sides as well, which is still seen as a serious achievement down here.

However, if you look at how World Rugby, and the IRB as they were once known, has treated the Pacific Island teams, it does paint a pretty damning portrait, especially around World Cup time.

Oh, they're absolutely that short sighted, but there's no financial advantage to them.

Puja

It also seems to depend on there not ever being any measures taken to curb fossil fuel emissions, which would no doubt jack up the costs. Of course, perhaps they're counting rising sea levels to put paid to those islanders' tendencies to make world cups interesting.

After a few days of Brett Gosper and Agustin Pichot getting dunked on by rugby fans on twitter while they scramble and obviously make shit up on the fly to calm the angry masses, Pacific Island teams discussing a meeting to vote on whether or not they'll collectively boycott the World Cup, leading players like Sexton, Read and Farrell calling the idea a big dumb stupid pile of dumb shit, and the Georgian Rugby Union making it clear they were FUCKING PISSED, Big Bill Beaumont has called for a meeting to take place later this month. Expected attendees are the CEOs and chairpersons from the various Tier 1 nations, reps from Fiji, Japan, the USA and player representatives.

Gosper and Pichot, Tweedledee and Tweedle-dumb, have both gone silent on the matter on social media.

Australia now officially out as being against the World League. I think that's it dead now.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -exclusion

Fun article pointing out the screamingly obvious about the PIs exclusion from Super Rugby. While I get that a PI team would be unlikely to bring the big bucks directly, surely there would be money to be made from bringing another extremely competitive team in that would capture a lot of attention as a loveable underdog? I can imagine it would raise the overall quality and saleability of Super Rugby more than any other expansion and would likely bring big away crowds when they played anywhere with a PI diaspora.

Puja

Puja wrote:Australia now officially out as being against the World League. I think that's it dead now.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... -exclusion

Fun article pointing out the screamingly obvious about the PIs exclusion from Super Rugby. While I get that a PI team would be unlikely to bring the big bucks directly, surely there would be money to be made from bringing another extremely competitive team in that would capture a lot of attention as a loveable underdog? I can imagine it would raise the overall quality and saleability of Super Rugby more than any other expansion and would likely bring big away crowds when they played anywhere with a PI diaspora.

Puja

Sure. I mean except for Argentina, South Africa, or Japan.

I'd also question exactly how competitive such a team would be, at least on a consistent basis, as they'd be frequently raided by European and Japanese clubs due to any Island team having a small budget. Then there's the problem of where they play, and how to get them to all play nicely with each other.

Lump all of Fiji, Tonga, Samoa together under the same generic descriptor. Yeah, that'll go well...

morepork wrote:Lump all of Fiji, Tonga, Samoa together under the same generic descriptor. Yeah, that'll go well...

Given the lack of interest in having Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan Super Rugby teams, they might have to lump having one team that plays its home games around the three nations.

Mind, as it is, they're not even getting that.

Puja

https://www.world.rugby/news/403130


Seems OK, until you actually start thinking about it. Anyone else notice how Europe is completely ring-fenced, minimising the required travel the players go through, while SH players are expected to scramble around the globe?

The broadcast rights could also potentially fuck over the game in some territories in the long term as well, potentially killing off what remains of free-to-air broadcasts, and while the promotion-relegation structure may make sense, it also means the teams in the lower tiers would have even less opportunity to play the top level teams, resulting in a revolving door of the same sides swapping around every two years after a while.

F**king World Rugby not paying to spread out Europe/condense the rest of the world. Those tectonic plates just won’t be bribed.

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:Lump all of Fiji, Tonga, Samoa together under the same generic descriptor. Yeah, that'll go well...

Given the lack of interest in having Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan Super Rugby teams, they might have to lump having one team that plays its home games around the three nations.

Mind, as it is, they're not even getting that.

Puja

Mate, as much as we all hate to acknowledge it, a professional sport is a business. Apia, Nuku'alofa, and Suva would struggle to support viable facilities for a franchise. That's just how it is.

morepork wrote:

Puja wrote:

morepork wrote:Lump all of Fiji, Tonga, Samoa together under the same generic descriptor. Yeah, that'll go well...

Given the lack of interest in having Fijian, Tongan, and Samoan Super Rugby teams, they might have to lump having one team that plays its home games around the three nations.

Mind, as it is, they're not even getting that.

Puja

Mate, as much as we all hate to acknowledge it, a professional sport is a business. Apia, Nuku'alofa, and Suva would struggle to support viable facilities for a franchise. That's just how it is.

All three have stadia that can hold more than 10,000 (which would compare favourably to a lot of Australian crowds) and there is always the option for them to have games in Auckland and Hawaii as has previously been mooted.

I think the benefit of an Islander franchise would be about the value of the competition as a whole though, rather than the direct attendances and tv deals (which would clearly be penny hapenny). It would boost the quality of the competition, give outsiders an underdog to cheer for, and it would improve your prospects of getting your hands on US money if you had games in Hawaii.

Puja

It's not just the venue capacity. The Tongan and Samoan unions in particular have proven time and time again that they simply can not be trusted when there's a large flow of cash at their fingertips.

cashead wrote:It's not just the venue capacity. The Tongan and Samoan unions in particular have proven time and time again that they simply can not be trusted when there's a large flow of cash at their fingertips.

Pretty much.

morepork wrote:Lump all of Fiji, Tonga, Samoa together under the same generic descriptor. Yeah, that'll go well...

I vote Pacific Browns, and they can compete annually with Cleveland as to which is the worst Browns, trophy to be named Down on the Brown

It's down with the brown.

Contributions from the Northern Hemisphere ladies and gentlemen.

There's an irony to someone objecting to the lumping together disparate pacific countries by lumping together a whole hemisphere after a poor joke....

morepork wrote:It's down with the brown.

Contributions from the Northern Hemisphere ladies and gentlemen.

TBH, we're keeping faith with the NH's longstanding policy - express outrage that you're not doing anything to help the Pacific Islands, offer half-baked ideas for things you can do, and don't do anything constructive ourselves.

Puja

The other problem is that even if Fiji Tonga and Samoa could fill the stadia it would be at a pittance because there just sin't the money around to make substantial sums from ticket sales. They basically need to be subsidised by the other unions in super rugby and they are pretty muhc all struggling themselves.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The other problem is that even if Fiji Tonga and Samoa could fill the stadia it would be at a pittance because there just sin't the money around to make substantial sums from ticket sales. They basically need to be subsidised by the other unions in super rugby and they are pretty muhc all struggling themselves.

My thought more was that it would increase the overall value of the product to foreign markets to have them there, rather than them directly making money. Bit of a gamble, I know.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:The other problem is that even if Fiji Tonga and Samoa could fill the stadia it would be at a pittance because there just sin't the money around to make substantial sums from ticket sales. They basically need to be subsidised by the other unions in super rugby and they are pretty muhc all struggling themselves.

My thought more was that it would increase the overall value of the product to foreign markets to have them there, rather than them directly making money. Bit of a gamble, I know.

Puja

It's only ever going to be the PI players who can't earn a proper wage somewhere else. They won't raise the quality overall. They won't be better than average.

Genuine question - if one of these millionaire benefactors wanted to help one or all of the pacific islands (rugby wise), would creating and funding a well resourced super rugby team that could compete in terms of wages be a good use of money?