Team For Scotland

[Rich]

After another routine crushing of Italy (Woodward is right about them, the 6N needs relegation and Italy are just not good enough) thoughts turn to England's last game of this year's 6N.


I don't think there will a single Scottish player who was alive last time Scotland won at Twickenham but they're always willing to spoil the party - with Manu and Brad Shieldss showing such great form though, I think England can go out with a bang and maybe even take this year's title.

Front row (no changes) though Hartley and Mako are naturally first choices when fully fit.

2nd row - Kruis and maybe Maro back from his injury?

Back row is looking like an area of strength - Brad Shields has surely cemented his place not only in Eddie's world cup squad but we may as well tattoo the number "6" on his back. He was awesome today and is now an automatic selection when fit.

Billy is the automatic call at No8 and Ben Curry is looking like the first choice openside....pity Underhill wasn't available to add some competition.

Elsewhere the rest of the team picks itself with the sole exception of Daly. I'm just not convinced about him at FB.
Again such a pity Watson couldn't get a game or two in the 15 shirt.


Potentially England's best XV:

Mako
Hartley
The Sink

Maro
Bjorn Ironside (c'mon he totally looks like him)

Brad "the beast" Shields
Underhill / Curry
Billy

Youngs (is there a better passing scrum half in the world today?)
Farrell

May "B" (he'll score one try, mybe he'll score two)
Ben "Bullzozer" Te'o
Manu
The Destroyer of worlds

Watson

[Mikey Brown]

Is this a joke?

[Galfon]

Genge, George, Sink
Maro, Kruis
Shields, Billy, Curry

Robson,Ford
May, Teo, Manu, Coka
Daly

Moon, LCD, Cole, Launch,Wilson,Youngs, Farrell,
Nowell/Slade

Shadow half-backs need a run-out - it's the last chance saloon!

[Spiffy]

After another routine crushing of Italy (Woodward is right about them, the 6N needs relegation and Italy are just not good enough) thoughts turn to England's last game of this year's 6N.


I don't think there will a single Scottish player who was alive last time Scotland won at Twickenham but they're always willing to spoil the party - with Manu and Brad Shieldss showing such great form though, I think England can go out with a bang and maybe even take this year's title.

Front row (no changes) though Hartley and Mako are naturally first choices when fully fit.

2nd row - Kruis and maybe Maro back from his injury?

Back row is looking like an area of strength - Brad Shields has surely cemented his place not only in Eddie's world cup squad but we may as well tattoo the number "6" on his back. He was awesome today and is now an automatic selection when fit.

Billy is the automatic call at No8 and Ben Curry is looking like the first choice openside....pity Underhill wasn't available to add some competition.

Elsewhere the rest of the team picks itself with the sole exception of Daly. I'm just not convinced about him at FB.
Again such a pity Watson couldn't get a game or two in the 15 shirt.


Potentially England's best XV:

Mako
Hartley
The Sink

Maro
Bjorn Ironside (c'mon he totally looks like him)

Brad "the beast" Shields
Underhill / Curry
Billy

Youngs (is there a better passing scrum half in the world today?)
Farrell

May "B" (he'll score one try, mybe he'll score two)
Ben "Bullzozer" Te'o
Manu
The Destroyer of worlds

Watson

Yes. (a) Every other SH currently playing international rugby ; and (b) most other SHs in the English PL; the Celtic Pro 14; the French Top 14; and Southern Hemisphere Super rugby. Not to mention the reserve SHs for many of those teams. And the third choice SHs for many of those teams.

[Digby]

Genge
George
Sinckler
Launchbury
Kruis
Wilson
Curry
Vunipola
Robson
Ford
May
Tuilagi
Joseph
Cockanasiga
Daly

LCD
?
?
Itoje
Mercer
Youngs
Farrell
Nowell

[Banquo]

Richy is JR Hartley, fisherman and Dylan's dad

[Oakboy]

It's reached the stage where it's a simple case of Jones's team on one hand and a fantasy team on the other. Jones will always pick Youngs and Farrell, for example. I would not but what's the point of debating it?

I would not have Shields in the squad, never mind the team. Yes, he ran in two tries but his handling butchered two that would have been scored had Wilson started. I'd not be surprised if Shields starts at 6 but cannot understand how he gets ahead of Wilson (or 5 or 6 others).

Basically, now, we have found ways to kick to victory and bludgeon to victory. However, we are still not playing what is in front of us with variety and good judgement. Jones got a best-possible performance out of the team against Ireland, a good on-the-day, tactical effort. He failed desperately against Wales who defended us off the park.

What is so irritating is that he rssponded by demonstrating how we could be flat-track bullies against Italy when he could have offered the team a valuable lesson in thinking for themselves how to outplay the opposition rather than batter them.

Some are now saying that Tuilagi is much more effective in the outside channel on the strength of yesterday's game. He might be or he might not but anybody reaching such a conclusion against that opposition is deluding themselves.

I suspect that Jones knew his team for Scotland before yesterday and nothing that occurred in the game will have had much effect on it. I only hope that yesterday's team was not an indication of his long-term thinking. My over-riding thought now, from game to game, is that I can't wait for the end of Jones's regime. I still yearn for an England win every time the team walks out but I do not enjoy the style of rugby played.

[Banquo]

Tuilagi did go well in attack, but exposed in defence, I’d still prefer him to continue at 12 with JJ outside.

[Son of Mathonwy]

What is so irritating is that he rssponded by demonstrating how we could be flat-track bullies against Italy when he could have offered the team a valuable lesson in thinking for themselves how to outplay the opposition rather than batter them.

That's exactly what came to mind, watching England yesterday.

[Mr Mwenda]

For those with keener eyes and more patience, what was going wrong in defence from england's centres. Had the strategy changed?

[Epaminondas Pules]

For those with keener eyes and more patience, what was going wrong in defence from england's centres. Had the strategy changed?

They were much more narrow and far less able to compensate quickly to the ball going wide.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Team for Scotland seems pretty simple on paper. Though I’d love either of Lawes or Itoje to be fit as Launchbury was really quite poor by his standards.

Genge
George
Sinckler
Kruis
Launchbury
Wilson
Curry
Vunipola
Youngs
Farrell
May
Tuilagi
Slade
Cokanasiga
Daly

LCD
Moon
Cole
A lock would be nice, I’d pick Isiekwe, but it’ll be Hughes
Shields
Robson
Ford
Nowell (if fit)

[richy678]

AS Oakboy points out - Shields handling is not the standard required at test level. Goal hanging for two tries.

Manu played like a guy ...welll....playing alongside his major rival for a starting place in a Wednesday dirt tracker game with a test coming up on Saturday. Joking apart Italy didn't fancy it all at times yesterday, but he looks to have improved in each game so far.

Daly looks good breaking through the 13 channel, no surprise there.

This is a bit wanky - but I took most pleasure yesterday from our starting props being who they are.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. Launchbury was poor and TBH, I never expected to say that. He’s usually one of the players I’d rely on to put in a 7/10 performance at the least.

I’d like to see Cokanasiga and Genge get a start against better opposition, but otherwise, I’d revert to the team we played against Wales.

Hoepfully Robson’s cameo was enough for Eddie to trust him with more than 5mins moving forward.

Regardless of the lineup, the way this game plays out is going to be massively influenced by the result of the Wales vs. Ireland game. If Wales lose, it may inspire the Scots to raise their game to try to stop us winning the Championship. Similarly, if we know we’re only playing for second, I’m not sure whether we’ll go out to batter the Scots, or just go through the motions?

[Mikey Brown]

So the original post actually wasn’t a joke?

Launchbury managed to be everywhere, but put in some conspicuously bad missed tackles and poor bits of handling. Looks off or rusty or something.

Great to see Kruis putting in some consistent all round performances though, I do feel like he benefits (similarly to with Itoje) in not having to stray too far from ruck or set-piece when the other is covering so much ground.

[Mellsblue]

So the original post actually wasn’t a joke?

Launchbury managed to be everywhere, but put in some conspicuously bad missed tackles and poor bits of handling. Looks off or rusty or something.

Great to see Kruis putting in some consistent all round performances though, I do feel like he benefits (similarly to with Itoje) in not having to stray too far from ruck or set-piece when the other is covering so much ground.

Launch didn’t look match fit to me. Kruis is England’s player of the Championships so far.

[Banquo]

So the original post actually wasn’t a joke?

Launchbury managed to be everywhere, but put in some conspicuously bad missed tackles and poor bits of handling. Looks off or rusty or something.

Great to see Kruis putting in some consistent all round performances though, I do feel like he benefits (similarly to with Itoje) in not having to stray too far from ruck or set-piece when the other is covering so much ground.

Launch didn’t look match fit to me. Kruis is England’s player of the Championships so far.

He's our fourth best currently imo, agree he looks a little ponderous. Still put in a good shift, but that was a glaring mistake for the Italy try, albeit merely compounding a terrible bit of defending from Teo in the previous phase.

For Scotland, I'd like JJ to get a recall outside Manu. Harsh on Slade I guess. Is Itoje going to be fit?

[Oakboy]

Tuilagi did go well in attack, but exposed in defence, I’d still prefer him to continue at 12 with JJ outside.

You always advocated that and I now have some idea why. At some point, I assume that Jones will try JJ but I think he prefers Slade. I do too but I don't think either will play to anything like full capacity outside Youngs and Farrell with any game plan employed recently. Either kicking everything or smashing seems to be the extent of our strategic planning.

You have a far deeper understanding of the intricacies of the game than me. I can't understand why it has to be kicking and smashing but never running, stepping or passing. Surely, employing all options depending on the situation is still the way to keep the opposition guessing?

It's as if Jones has decided emphatically that his core game-planners are Youngs and Farrell so he devises gameplans that suit their limited skill-sets. His stubborn nature then comes in because he gives Robson and Ford too little time to possibly prove him wrong. Neither of them is suited to a restrictive game plan and god forbids them to do anything on the hoof. That leaves Slade or JJ neutred by a lack of the ball. I suppose you then choose JJ for his better defence or Slade for his little handling cameos, depending on preference. I suspect that Jones will stick with Slade's tries-out-of-nothing etc.

[Banquo]

Tuilagi did go well in attack, but exposed in defence, I’d still prefer him to continue at 12 with JJ outside.

You always advocated that and I now have some idea why. At some point, I assume that Jones will try JJ but I think he prefers Slade. I do too but I don't think either will play to anything like full capacity outside Youngs and Farrell with any game plan employed recently. Either kicking everything or smashing seems to be the extent of our strategic planning.

You have a far deeper understanding of the intricacies of the game than me. I can't understand why it has to be kicking and smashing but never running, stepping or passing. Surely, employing all options depending on the situation is still the way to keep the opposition guessing?

It's as if Jones has decided emphatically that his core game-planners are Youngs and Farrell so he devises gameplans that suit their limited skill-sets. His stubborn nature then comes in because he gives Robson and Ford too little time to possibly prove him wrong. Neither of them is suited to a restrictive game plan and god forbids them to do anything on the hoof. That leaves Slade or JJ neutred by a lack of the ball. I suppose you then choose JJ for his better defence or Slade for his little handling cameos, depending on preference. I suspect that Jones will stick with Slade's tries-out-of-nothing etc.

I only advocate Manu at 12 because I don't see the running distributing i/c of choice, and he scares defences with his running and can be destructive in defence. Great target to play off, and with a little creativity can also use him in the wider channels.

I wouldn't pick JJ on defence alone, though it looks increasingly important in the way our defence is operating, but because he has blistering pace, is a proven try scorer, and can pass at sufficient standard. That midfield, possibly even with Faz (but likely not Youngs) will interest defenders a lot, and with Joe C, Daly and May being used, that's a scary old backline. We have the forwards (through luck) to support a faster, and possibly wider game- so to me, we could be playing with differing tactics within the game plan....though I'd still think we could get fitter and more intense. By giving it away so much through kicking, we are tiring our team out with the intensity of forwards defence demanded.

[p/d]

Would still like to see a fb in our 23

[Banquo]

Would still like to see a fb in our 23

yes, its bloody annoying that Daly can't catch/challenge the high ball, because his 15 incursions into the backline are classic line and all the better for it. Fortunately May remains solid, and looks like Joe will cope well too. If Watson gets fit, then we will have some serious options. Daly remains first choice wing for me

[Scrumhead]

AS Oakboy points out - Shields handling is not the standard required at test level. Goal hanging for two tries.

Manu played like a guy ...welll....playing alongside his major rival for a starting place in a Wednesday dirt tracker game with a test coming up on Saturday. Joking apart Italy didn't fancy it all at times yesterday, but he looks to have improved in each game so far.

Daly looks good breaking through the 13 channel, no surprise there.

This is a bit wanky - but I took most pleasure yesterday from our starting props being who they are.

I agree with most of that.

I’m a vocal critic of Shields and as I said earlier in the thread, I’m concerned that those two tries might allow him to leapfrog Wilson unfairly. All that said, I don’t think it’s entirely fair to accuse him of ‘goal hanging’. Supporting breaks as he did for the first try is part of his job as a flanker and the second try was just pure luck.

I had a season where I scored quite a few similar tries, basically strolling in unopposed after someone else had made a good break, but I didn’t feel bad about it considering I’d run my ass off to be there on the shoulder.

[fivepointer]

Shields first try was down to him running a good supporting line. The 2nd was just luck. Outside of that i'm struggling to recall one piece of play that made to think that, yeah this is the guy i want playing 6 for England. His over promotion is utterly baffling given better players are available.
It might that he just needs to play. Same could be said of Te'o who didnt seem to bring a whole lot to proceedings.
I'd discard them in a heartbeat both but I have a horrible feeling they'll both start next week.

[Banquo]

Shields first try was down to him running a good supporting line. The 2nd was just luck. Outside of that i'm struggling to recall one piece of play that made to think that, yeah this is the guy i want playing 6 for England. His over promotion is utterly baffling given better players are available.
It might that he just needs to play. Same could be said of Te'o who didnt seem to bring a whole lot to proceedings.
I'd discard them in a heartbeat both but I have a horrible feeling they'll both start next week.

He got one excellent turnover and made a load of tackles, but yes.

[Stom]

Shields first try was down to him running a good supporting line. The 2nd was just luck. Outside of that i'm struggling to recall one piece of play that made to think that, yeah this is the guy i want playing 6 for England. His over promotion is utterly baffling given better players are available.
It might that he just needs to play. Same could be said of Te'o who didnt seem to bring a whole lot to proceedings.
I'd discard them in a heartbeat both but I have a horrible feeling they'll both start next week.

He got one excellent turnover and made a load of tackles, but yes.

He also made one good carry out of our 22. You won't remember because you'll have been screaming at Ben Youngs arriving 10 minutes later, having a cup of tea, reading the newspaper and then passing back for a kick because, well...

I saw around 25-30 minutes of the game, from the 45m mark to around 70-75. And we were godawful. Seriously appallingly bad. We played 0 rugby, our defense was poor, and we only outscored the opposition because Italy were just embarrassing.

I couldn't believe it, just terrible. And by the time the half backs were changed, the forwards had completely given up and we'd changed the dynamism (someone will have to let me know if they really were) of Genge and Sinck for Moon and Cole... And taken off Curry for Wilson, leaving us with 3 carriers down from 7.

Talk about setting someone up to fail...