RugbyRebels

There’s quite a bit of chat on various threads around players who might be in the mix post World Cup, so I thought it might be worth bringing together in one place.

Clearly it’s not going to be an overnight revolution, but even if the likes of Hartley, Brown and Robshaw were to make it to the World Cup, it will surely be their swan song in an England jersey.

Here’s my take:

Loosehead Prop

Mako Vunipola, Ellis Genge, Alec Hepburn, Beno Obano, Lewis Boyce

Nothing too controversial here - I’ve taken out Moon as I don’t see him being any more than a short term solution. Particularly if Genge can back up his performance against Italy.

Hooker

Jamie George, Jack Singleton, Luke Cowan-Dickie, Jack Walker

Hartley will be gone. I think Singleton can leapfrog Cowan-Dickie and if Jack Walker can ever stay fit, I’d be surprised if he’s not in the mix. Longer term Alfie Barbeary is the one to watch.

Tighthead Prop

Kyle Sinckler, Harry Williams, Will Stuart, Joe Heyes, Ehren Painter

I have high hopes for Stuart and Heyes in particular. I’m less convinced on Painter, but he’s definitely got time to develop. Could Paul Hill come back in to the frame after disappearing almost entirely?

Lock

Maro Itoje, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes, Joe Launchbury, Charlie Ewels, Nick Isiekwe, Joel Kpoku

Maro will obviously remain a mainstay (possibly as captain) and although Kruis and Lawes are unlikely to last another World Cup cycle, they will be in a good position to pass the baton on to the likes of Isiekwe and a Kpoku, so I wouldn’t cut them out too soon.

Blindside Flanker

Mark Wilson, Brad Shields, Jack Clifford, Jack Willis, Ted Hill

This could be an interesting one. I see no reason to stop picking Wilson if he keeps playing well but will a new coach have the same love for Shields? I expect Willis and Hill to be making a strong case before long though. I’ve put Clifford in as a 6 as that’s where he’s playing most of his rugby for Quins.

Openside Flanker

Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Ben Earl, Ben Curry, Lewis Ludlam, Will Evans

At last, great competition for places! If Will Evans does move to Quins as rumoured, it could be what he needs to get back in contention. Ludlam is a great example of what a bit of game time can do for a player.

Number 8

Billy Vunipola, Zach Mercer, Sam Simmonds, Alex Dombrandt, Callum Chick, Tom Willis

Who needs Hughes when we have at least three strong contenders with more to offer. Chick is a bit of a wildcard, but is highly rated and like Evans, a move (as rumoured) could do him good.

Scrum Half

Ben Youngs, Dan Robson, Ben Spencer, Jack Maunder, Harry Randall, Alex Mitchell

Bit of a mess at 9 ... what’s new? By now Robson and Spencer could/should have had a lot more caps. Hopefully the new coach comes decides Youngs’ time has been and gone. Maunder needs to lock down a starting spot to challenge but Randall and Butler are looking like they could be good options.

Fly Half

Owen Farrell, George Ford, Marcus Smith, Joe Simmonds, Max Malins, James Grayson

Farrell and Ford are young enough for another World Cup cycle and other options like Smith or Simmonds are nowhere near ready. Max Malins could/should be an exciting option, but I think he’ll need to leave Sarries to do it. Grayson is a wildcard.

Inside Centre

Manu Tuilagi, Alex Lozowski, Ollie Devoto, Johnny Williams, Nick Tompkins, Cam Redpath

With Tuilagi staying at Tigers, he’s in the squad as long as he can stay fit. The other options are a bit of a lottery. Hopefully Te’o will be out of consideration, but unless Farrell plays at 12, every other option is uncapped. I’ve kept Devoto in there as he’s on the fringes of the current squad, but I think he could be leapfrogged by Williams or Tompkins.

Outside Centre

Henry Slade, Jonathan Joseph, Joe Marchant, Fraser Dingwall, Ollie Lawrence

Fairly straightforward here IMO. The only potential spanner in the works is whether Wales and Scotland manage to turn Marchant and Dingwall’s heads. Ollie Lawrence looks like he is going to be a very special player.

Wing

Jonny May, Anthony Watson, Jack Nowell, Joe Cokanasiga, Ollie Thorley, Gabriel Ibitoye

Again, these guys pretty much pick themselves. If it turns out Watson has lost some of his out and out gas, he could end up being more of a contender for the 15 shirt.

Fullback

Elliot Daly, Harry Mallinder, Max Malins

Daly may yet take to the 15 shirt, but if Brown is out of the picture (as he more or less is anyway), there aren’t any obvious challengers. Mallinder (remember him?) might become a viable option, but it seems like such a long time since he’s played that it’s hard to know how he will come back? He has all the physical attributes/talent, it’s just whether he can fix his defensive issues. Malins is the wildcard for me. The fact that Sarries have played him at 15 with Goode at 10 suggests that may be where they see his future.

Olowofela and Lawday might well feature.

You could put vellacott in the 9 mix, and a host of other 6/7’s as per the other thread who are no more or less deserving than some listed here, by and large though it looks reasonable.

I think Marcus Street could well be in the mix at TH in a couple of seasons time. Being picked ahead of Hayes for the U20’s and is starting to break through at Chiefs.

Rib bands and Jonny Hill could come into the lock picture depending on how long some of the incumbents can keep their bodies together.

Anyone know how good Furbank is at Saints? He seems to have nailed down a regular spot at fb, and even managed to step in and do a decent job at 10 a few weeks back.

You’ve missed Booj.

Also, aren’t Tuilagi, Lozowski and Tompkins all primarily OCs. Probably best for them given, you know, Booj.

Vellacott is a decent shout. I guess a lot will depend upon how he settles at Wasps.

TBH, I’d forgotten about Street. Although, I’d argue Heyes has been more impressive so far at senior level.

I did consider Hill, Stooke and Ribbans, but I reckon Kpoku will leapfrog them all.

Mellsblue wrote:You’ve missed Booj.

Also, aren’t Tuilagi, Lozowski and Tompkins all OCs. Probably best for them given, you know, Booj.

They all can and do play at 12, but it’s a fair point.

Timbo wrote:Anyone know how good Furbank is at Saints? He seems to have nailed down a regular spot at fb, and even managed to step in and do a decent job at 10 a few weeks back.

I have never met him or even seen him play a full game but given his schooling he’ll be an outrageously talented rugby player, charming, suave, erudite and, obviously, a hit with the ladies.

From Sale I can see Harrison, Beaumont, Ross, Reed and Denny bring in with a shout. Maybe one of the James’ if looking to the future.


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Really?

I’d put Beaumont, Ross and Harrison in the same category as the likes of Armand and Ewers. Good/very good Premiership players that have missed the boat (Armand’s couple of caps aside) for test rugby. Another year isn’t going to help their case when they’re already in their late 20s. Particularly with the strength of the young players we have coming through.

Solomona probably has a better shout, but we have some great depth at wing so he’d be up against it.

I haven’t seen enough of Reed to comment, but if we’re going to take a punt on young wingers, the likes of Thorley and Ibitoye are surely ahead, not to mention Cokanasiga.

Reed is very quick. So too Sleightholme and Murley but its too early for any of them.

Think we'll lose between 6 to 10 from the WC squad. There's always some churn just after the event with players stepping down.
Immediate issue is to find a couple of decent SH's. Pick 'em and invest in 'em. We have to do better than Youngs and Wiggy. Alex Mitchell looks a very handy player to me.
12 is another position we could with freshening. Johnny Williams looks good to me and should be seriously looked at.
Inevitably Ted Hill will find a place in the squad and there are plenty of really good 7's available. THP could be a position of tremendous strength in a year or two. Sinckler wont even be in his prime and there will be a number of good young players pushing for places.