To sub or not to sub that is the question

[Epaminondas Pules]

I know it’s not about just copying the All Blacks, but this is quite eye opening....

5788FA6B-8773-472C-8DE8-8B2AB273A4FC.png

[Puja]

I know it’s not about just copying the All Blacks, but this is quite eye opening....5788FA6B-8773-472C-8DE8-8B2AB273A4FC.png

I think with some of those, it's led by the drop-off in quality from the team to the bench. The ABs have ridiculous depth and so they can use their subs without weakening the XV. Teams like Wales and Scotland don't really have that, so there are occasions where they're better leaving the starters on the pitch where they can.

Of course, we have ridiculous depth as well, but we're just incompetent at channelling it properly.

Puja

[Lizard]

NZ might be at one end of the scale but there doesn’t seem to be much other correlation between this graph and world rankings

[Scrumhead]

Interesting. I had the impression that we typically use all of our subs unless their name happens to be Dan Robson.

[Peej]

I know it’s not about just copying the All Blacks, but this is quite eye opening....5788FA6B-8773-472C-8DE8-8B2AB273A4FC.png

I think with some of those, it's led by the drop-off in quality from the team to the bench. The ABs have ridiculous depth and so they can use their subs without weakening the XV. Teams like Wales and Scotland don't really have that, so there are occasions where they're better leaving the starters on the pitch where they can.

Of course, we have ridiculous depth as well, but we're just incompetent at channelling it properly.

Puja

Do you think it might also be something to do with the fact that the ABs are very rarely in close games, so there's less conservatism about changing players - especially when combined with your reason above about the continuity of quality that comes off the bench?

[Banquo]

Maybe demonstrates how fit the core of the Welsh squad is?

[Scrumhead]

As interesting as it is, I’m not really sure what the graph actually does to offer any insight in to what works best.

The team who uses the most subs is the world number 1 and the team that uses subs the least is currently number 2 ...

England’s use of the bench under Eddie has been very mixed. At times it’s been used extensively to good effect, at others, it feels like it’s been used poorly without real thought.

That said, my sense is that the only times we don’t tend to use all 8 subs is when whoever is on the bench lacks experience/doesn’t have Eddie’s trust. Dan Robson is the obvious example, but others like Jack Singleton sat on the bench twice during the last Argentina tour, presumably for similar reasons.

[Lizard]

It would be interesting to see a graph of the total minutes played by all subs in each match against the half-time margins.

[Digby]

Maybe demonstrates how fit the core of the Welsh squad is?

Helps not expending any effort on attack

[fivepointer]

As interesting as it is, I’m not really sure what the graph actually does to offer any insight in to what works best.

The team who uses the most subs is the world number 1 and the team that uses subs the least is currently number 2 ...

England’s use of the bench under Eddie has been very mixed. At times it’s been used extensively to good effect, at others, it feels like it’s been used poorly without real thought.

That said, my sense is that the only times we don’t tend to use all 8 subs is when whoever is on the bench lacks experience/doesn’t have Eddie’s trust. Dan Robson is the obvious example, but others like Jack Singleton sat on the bench twice during the last Argentina tour, presumably for similar reasons.

This.

What might be handy is to see the actual time played for the starters and subs. My feeling is that NZ sub quite early, giving the new player time to make an impact on the game. They seem to use their replacements as a development tool allowing the bench the chance to get meaningful game time, rather then just replace a tired player well into the 2nd half.

England routinely sub late on, often post 70 minutes. During the 6N's we saw many examples of this.

[Stom]

Yeah, average minutes/sub would be interesting. This doesn't say much, tbh.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

It compares apples & oranges so means little to me.

[Digby]

It compares apples & oranges so means little to me.

Both types of fruit, one can understand your lack of comprehension

[Doorzetbornandbred]

The 1014 did a video regarding depth and minutes played by replacements highlighting how much game time 2nd 3rd and 4th choices in positions were getting for various nations. I haven't got time to find it now but I'll have a look later on unless someone else finds it first.

[Lizard]

Relevant: http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/viewtop ... 95#p144395