RugbyRebels

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49445526

Not hugely distraught about Mallinder himself - I'd prefer to've kept him, but at least it takes the option away from the RFU of picking him as a cheap Eddie replacement - but our age group coaching structure has gone from being best in the world to being akin to Trump's State Department in a very short time.

Ryan let Walton and Fletcher go, then pissed off himself, and now we've lost both Bates and Mallinder. Who the hell is there left?

Puja

What. A. Shambles.

Ah, but the RFU is economising.

The RFU made a colossal balls up replacing Fletcher and Walton.

Lots of bright ambitious coaches around, albeit not as well known as the likes of Ryan and Malinder. Take a punt on some younger (and cheaper) coaches.

Or even ask Ben Ryan if he wants in. He's a world leader in performance, okay as per himself, but still

Digby wrote:Lots of bright ambitious coaches around, albeit not as well known as the likes of Ryan and Malinder. Take a punt on some younger (and cheaper) coaches.

Or even ask Ben Ryan if he wants in. He's a world leader in performance, okay as per himself, but still

Great idea but he’s on record that he won’t work for the RFU again until there are wholesale changes in the corridors of power.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:Lots of bright ambitious coaches around, albeit not as well known as the likes of Ryan and Malinder. Take a punt on some younger (and cheaper) coaches.

Or even ask Ben Ryan if he wants in. He's a world leader in performance, okay as per himself, but still

Great idea but he’s on record that he won’t work for the RFU again until there are wholesale changes in the corridors of power.

it doesn't hurt to ask, and people often find reality harder to turn down than a hypothetical. though I'm not remotely convinced he'd be a success, he's just worth a look somewhere to see what happens, and this is a possible somewhere

So when England last won the JWC in 2016 we had Haag, Walton, Fletcher and Earnshaw all coaching our elite u18-u20’s- arguably the best and most consistent set up in the world. All gone now.

Whoever comes next is basically going to have to build from scratch after Ryan’s scorched earth fuckwittery.

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:Lots of bright ambitious coaches around, albeit not as well known as the likes of Ryan and Malinder. Take a punt on some younger (and cheaper) coaches.

Or even ask Ben Ryan if he wants in. He's a world leader in performance, okay as per himself, but still

Great idea but he’s on record that he won’t work for the RFU again until there are wholesale changes in the corridors of power.

it doesn't hurt to ask, and people often find reality harder to turn down than a hypothetical. though I'm not remotely convinced he'd be a success, he's just worth a look somewhere to see what happens, and this is a possible somewhere

I'm not sure I'd want Ryan near anything but a 7s side. He loves a bit of self-promotion and keeps his stock and publicity high, but he's got sod-all grounding in the XVs game. His profile and rep is massively out of proportion with what he actually offers.

Puja

Which is why I'd happily hand him a group of kids, or maybe Leicester, something that can fail and will not really bother me essentially. But he is interesting, and the game already has plenty of people who seek contact.

Digby wrote:Which is why I'd happily hand him a group of kids, or maybe Leicester, something that can fail and will not really bother me essentially. But he is interesting, and the game already has plenty of people who seek contact.

He *talks* interesting, but no evidence of anything else. I've got very little time for shameless self-promoters.

And I'd rather not bollix up our youth development considering we've only just got it working again!

Puja

Hard to ruin it from that role, most of their time will be with their club/academy. And shameless self-promoters can do very well, Clive was excellent for a good number of seasons.

I'm not saying he must be given that role, merely he could prove interesting. And a limited time involvement with the juniors is a more reasonable first step to see how he goes than something important, like say Bedford according to some lunatic

Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Please go on.

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Please go on.

Which bit do you need more info on?

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

Fair enough. I suppose it depends what you want to achieve. I like the idea of it being a different environment to a club academy other than just different players at higher quality. You could also pair him with someone steeped in the XV game.

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

What is a CV coach?

Also what actually had Fletcher and Walton done prior to their academy work at the RFU? I know they were at Newcastle with the kids there for a period, both might even have run the Falcons academy, so what are we looking at as a minimum entry point if they need something specific?

Millennials have a mortgage and teenage kids. They need to come up with a new derogatory term for young people.

twitchy wrote:Millennials have a mortgage and teenage kids. They need to come up with a new derogatory term for young people.

Why is millennial a derogatory term? If you’re trying to say academy kids are now really Gen Z, though the birth dates aren’t set in stone, then fair enough.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

What is a CV coach?

Also what actually had Fletcher and Walton done prior to their academy work at the RFU? I know they were at Newcastle with the kids there for a period, both might even have run the Falcons academy, so what are we looking at as a minimum entry point if they need something specific?

Typo - meant to say XVs coach. Fletcher and Walton were responsible for the productive Newcastle academy and Fletcher also had an ill-fated spell in charge of Newcastle. It's a heck of a lot more than Ryan whose XVs qualifications top out at "attack coach in ND2".

I think the thing that would gall is that we wouldn't be hiring a promising coach with something to prove, we'd be hiring Ben Ryan, Hero of Fiji, with his own bank note and a firm belief that his experience in a different sport qualifies him as knowing better than those who have experience in the actual sport. It's be as bad as hiring Wayne Bennett.

Puja

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Might be quite good to make the age group set up radically different to the academies. We all complain about the academies churning out robots. Having a bit of a maverick in the system might do some good. He’s also highly into the mental well-being of players which, given the sensibilities of millennials and Myall’s latest revelations, can only be a good thing. Fletcher was always deemed a little radical and we all lamented him being given the boot.

Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

What is a CV coach?

105 per side

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

What is a CV coach?

105 per side

I'm now imagining a thrilling game of just that as coached by Gatland

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
Fletcher actually had some credentials as a CVs coach other than "good chat".

Puja

What is a CV coach?

Also what actually had Fletcher and Walton done prior to their academy work at the RFU? I know they were at Newcastle with the kids there for a period, both might even have run the Falcons academy, so what are we looking at as a minimum entry point if they need something specific?

Typo - meant to say XVs coach. Fletcher and Walton were responsible for the productive Newcastle academy and Fletcher also had an ill-fated spell in charge of Newcastle. It's a heck of a lot more than Ryan whose XVs qualifications top out at "attack coach in ND2".

I think the thing that would gall is that we wouldn't be hiring a promising coach with something to prove, we'd be hiring Ben Ryan, Hero of Fiji, with his own bank note and a firm belief that his experience in a different sport qualifies him as knowing better than those who have experience in the actual sport. It's be as bad as hiring Wayne Bennett.

Puja

I'm just not that fussed about who's in charge of that particular camp so it doesn't especially bother me if they give it a bit of a whirl. And I am keen to see the involvement of coaches who are interested more in space than contact. But I'm not too fussed either if the job goes to someone with a proven track record working with kids. I wonder also if they might have a word with Giselle Mather, that would get them the sort of press they like

Puja wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49445526

Not hugely distraught about Mallinder himself - I'd prefer to've kept him, but at least it takes the option away from the RFU of picking him as a cheap Eddie replacement - but our age group coaching structure has gone from being best in the world to being akin to Trump's State Department in a very short time.

Ryan let Walton and Fletcher go, then pissed off himself, and now we've lost both Bates and Mallinder. Who the hell is there left?

Puja

Woohoo!!! Great news!! Couldn’t be happier!