RugbyRebels

My England starting XV to face Italy on Friday:

1.Genge
2.Singleton
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Ludlum
7.Underhill
8.Itoje
9.Heinz
10.Ford
11.Daly
12.Francis
13.Slade
14.Macohnicie
15.Watson

Who’s turn is it? It’s not mine. It’s definitely not Puja’s. Anyone?

Hard to predict who I'd have, as it'll depend on who they think needs more game time to get into form. It might be sensible to rest the likes of Marler, Sinckler, BillyV and Itoje who are critical to our chances, but have they all had enough game time to be match fit?

I'd go with:

Marler
Singleton
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Wilson

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Tuilagi
McConnochie
Watson


But I will defer to Eddie and co as they'll have better data than us on who needs a game and who needs a rest.

Puja

Puja wrote:Hard to predict who I'd have, as it'll depend on who they think needs more game time to get into form. It might be sensible to rest the likes of Marler, Sinckler, BillyV and Itoje who are critical to our chances, but have they all had enough game time to be match fit?

I'd go with:

Marler
Singleton
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Wilson

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Tuilagi
McConnochie
Watson


But I will defer to Eddie and co as they'll have better data than us on who needs a game and who needs a rest.

Puja

Aye.

I also think we should see something very similar to your team.

Perhaps we could do with seeing Joseph outside Ford and Farrell, too, though.

I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

It would be good to see more of Watson, Nowell, Slade or McConnochie if fit. Beyond that it's hard to care too much, like Puja said it only comes down to who has/needs gametime.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:Hard to predict who I'd have, as it'll depend on who they think needs more game time to get into form. It might be sensible to rest the likes of Marler, Sinckler, BillyV and Itoje who are critical to our chances, but have they all had enough game time to be match fit?

I'd go with:

Marler
Singleton
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Wilson

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Tuilagi
McConnochie
Watson


But I will defer to Eddie and co as they'll have better data than us on who needs a game and who needs a rest.

Puja

Aye.

I also think we should see something very similar to your team.

Perhaps we could do with seeing Joseph outside Ford and Farrell, too, though.

On that one, I'd rather keep working on the fluency of what I'm praying is now our first choice midfield. Get as many minutes into those partnerships as possible.

Puja

fivepointer wrote:I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

That sounds about right.

The main thing I'll say is it would be fucking hilarious if EJ does actually give Daly a rest then proceeds to play Nowell/McConnochie/Slade at fullback instead of Watson.

fivepointer wrote:I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

I believe Slade isn't expected to be fit.

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote:

fivepointer wrote:I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

That sounds about right.

The main thing I'll say is it would be fucking hilarious if EJ does actually give Daly a rest then proceeds to play Nowell/McConnochie/Slade at fullback instead of Watson.

I was thinking about this the other day - if the point of Daly at 15 is to have him quarterbacking off turnovers, as the best person to assess a broken field and decide how to stress a short defence, then there's an argument that McConnochie is the best like-for-like sub for that. With his 7s experience, he's probably the best placed to be given a ball and lots of space and told to decide what the team does next.

Puja

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

I believe Slade isn't expected to be fit.

Puja

I’ve read the same. Quite worrying that he’s been carrying the same minor injury for the past four weeks.
Nowell must be a really worry now that he’s also had an appendectomy.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

fivepointer wrote:I believe that all bar Mako and Nowell will be available.
Important to get those who havent played some game time so Slade and McConnochie to start. I'd have Wilson at 8 and captain as the game is in Newcastle, Singleton at hooker, Watson at FB and Lawes a proper run at lock.
The props will all be involved, as will both SH's.
Rest Itoje, Billy, Manu and Daly.

That sounds about right.

The main thing I'll say is it would be fucking hilarious if EJ does actually give Daly a rest then proceeds to play Nowell/McConnochie/Slade at fullback instead of Watson.

I was thinking about this the other day - if the point of Daly at 15 is to have him quarterbacking off turnovers, as the best person to assess a broken field and decide how to stress a short defence, then there's an argument that McConnochie is the best like-for-like sub for that. With his 7s experience, he's probably the best placed to be given a ball and lots of space and told to decide what the team does next.

Puja

One lefty liberal article in the Guardian by Ben Ryan and you’re a sevens convert fanboy.

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:Hard to predict who I'd have, as it'll depend on who they think needs more game time to get into form. It might be sensible to rest the likes of Marler, Sinckler, BillyV and Itoje who are critical to our chances, but have they all had enough game time to be match fit?

I'd go with:

Marler
Singleton
Sinckler
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Wilson

Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Tuilagi
McConnochie
Watson


But I will defer to Eddie and co as they'll have better data than us on who needs a game and who needs a rest.

Puja

Aye.

I also think we should see something very similar to your team.

Perhaps we could do with seeing Joseph outside Ford and Farrell, too, though.

On that one, I'd rather keep working on the fluency of what I'm praying is now our first choice midfield. Get as many minutes into those partnerships as possible.

Puja

While I find the 1014 videos to generally be a lot of style over substance, they did highlight one interesting point...

The starting XV for the winning WC finalists in every final since 1999 had played together exactly once before the final. 5 finals, each time just 1 game with that exact 15...

Mikey Brown wrote:Who’s turn is it? It’s not mine. It’s definitely not Puja’s. Anyone?

wumbot

Will this game be about concentrating on a few specifics? For example, if Singleton could record 60 minutes of lineout accuracy might he get the 16 shirt? Should Heinz play a full 80 minutes to prove he can? Can Watson look the part at FB?

Oakboy wrote:Will this game be about concentrating on a few specifics? For example, if Singleton could record 60 minutes of lineout accuracy might he get the 16 shirt? Should Heinz play a full 80 minutes to prove he can? Can Watson look the part at FB?

There is nothing to be learned here or decisions to be made. The hour is too late and the opposition are too weak to provide definitive answers. The sole purpose of this game is to get minutes into the legs of those who need it and practise some combinations.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Will this game be about concentrating on a few specifics? For example, if Singleton could record 60 minutes of lineout accuracy might he get the 16 shirt? Should Heinz play a full 80 minutes to prove he can? Can Watson look the part at FB?

There is nothing to be learned here or decisions to be made. The hour is too late and the opposition are too weak to provide definitive answers. The sole purpose of this game is to get minutes into the legs of those who need it and practise some combinations.

Puja

and give those of us who live in the wastelands a brief glimpse of our betters.

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Will this game be about concentrating on a few specifics? For example, if Singleton could record 60 minutes of lineout accuracy might he get the 16 shirt? Should Heinz play a full 80 minutes to prove he can? Can Watson look the part at FB?

There is nothing to be learned here or decisions to be made. The hour is too late and the opposition are too weak to provide definitive answers. The sole purpose of this game is to get minutes into the legs of those who need it and practise some combinations.

Puja

In a way I hope you are right but I think Jones has lots of issues still undecided. He might be going to get the team to peak at the right time if you are of a 'glass half-full ' opinion. Or, if you tend towards 'half-empty' does he even know for certain what his best XV is? Those in the latter camp might reasonably point to the back-row and centre selection or the lack of a quality SH in the squad. As for slickness, the jury is out, IMO.

We've shown we can put in big performances with very different XV's, I'm not necessarily sure that's a bad thing.

So Watson at fb. No Singleton in the squad and Billy starting at 8

Merchant and Francis start with Farrell and Youngs

p/d wrote:So Watson at fb. No Singleton in the squad and Billy starting at 8

Merchant and Francis start with Farrell and Youngs

Where does that come from? DT saying Wilson at 8 and Singleton starting.

OK, that's pretty insane...

England starting XV v Italy

15 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 35 caps)
14 Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
13 Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 2 caps)
12 Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 46 caps)
10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 72 caps) C
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 88 caps)

1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 61 caps)
2 Jamie George (Saracens, 39 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 88 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 60 caps)
5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 74 caps)
6 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 12 caps)
7 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons/Sale Sharks, 14 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 44 caps)

Finishers

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps )
18 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 24 caps)
19 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 11 caps)
20 Matt Kvesic (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
21 Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
23 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 7 caps)

Do you think he's trolling us with the flankers?

I still maintain that Billy needs games in his legs to get the best put of him. 4 games in 5 weeks isn't especially onerous, particularly when followed by a fortnight's break, so (unless there's a freak injury) I'm not against him playing this one.

Kvesic and Ewels on the bench - looks like Kevs has leapfrogged Shields and Dombrandt to be the next cab off the rank if there's an injury in Japan.

Puja

ETA. And I've just noticed Marchant at 13! Wonder what's up with Joseph?

Trying George without Kruis or itoje has some merit. But Singleton needed game time in my view

Back row is just fecking annoying. With the exception of kvesic being involved loosely

Watson at full back is great to see

No idea why Joseph isn’t starting instead of Marchant

I think I’m happy with the team but absolutely baffled by eddies selection methods.

I assume Curry at 6 is now a definite plan for Japan and they need him to get some minutes there and Wilson just to get some minutes anywhere.
Eddie is already on record that a fourth warmup is at least one too many.